Character traits of a sociopath by Dr Robert Hare

These are the main character traits as outlined by Robert Hare

Factor 1: Personality “Aggressive narcissism”
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
Callousness; lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for his or her own actions

Factor 2: Case history “Socially deviant lifestyle.”
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Lack of realistic long-term goals
Impulsivity
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavior problems
Revocation of conditional release

Robert Hare thought that Factor 1 traits will always be present, whilst factor 2 traits can improve with age.

70 thoughts on “Character traits of a sociopath by Dr Robert Hare”

  1. I believe my daughter is married to a sociopath. For no apparent resone he has cut all ties with our family & my daughter. The police will not step in, & therefore our hands are tied. Is my daughter in danger.

    1. Yes, try to stay in contact with her. Even if she rejects you. let her know that you are always there, ignore rejections from her, and don’t give up. Let her know that she always has a safe place to come home to with you. They are very good at brainwashing their victim. So if you react in hurt and her rejection of you, it will make her believe that what he is saying is true. You really don’t care about her. Which of course is not true.

      What makes you think that she is with a sociopath?

  2. Questions:

    Do you think a SP can have a conscience but yet still have most of the symptoms of sociopathy? (Moving fast into relationships, initial obsession, the stare, narcissism, evading direct questions, accusing you of cheating or lying, CONTROLLING everything, temper tantrums, lack of patience, boredom issues, financial issues, unable to cooperate or compromise, unable to keep a steady job due to inability to take direction, blaming all problems on others – always looking at another or pointing the finger to highlight someone else’s shortcomings when he’s called out for doing something, petty lying (who knows possibly tall tales as well), lack of intimate friendships and close family relationships etc. and still be called a sociopath?

    The SP told me someone had indicated he was a SP but the only thing is he had a conscience. Have you heard of that? If that would be the case, couldn’t therapy help huim? However, ALL the above qualities I’ve identified hold true. Another strange thing is that I do believe he told me much of the truth about himself and do not feel that the info was grandiose in any manner. I’ve watched him tell petty lies for no real apparent reason that didn’t make sense to me and found it strange. What are your thoughts?

    Could there be hope for him if he did have a conscience and acknowledged the traits and characteristics possibly receiving medication and therapy to change the behavioral patterns? I wanted to believe if I could research the condition (the condition he told me he had and I knew nothing about; we could discuss and truly make this work). How would you if someone truly has a conscience if the SP’s place masks on their faces to most people charming them with their outgoing and larger than life presence?

      1. So honestly, how do you tell if someone even has a conscience if they are a SP? You can’t really tell the difference because they are so darn good at the game. I have dated a SP for 7 years. It literally ruined me and I am unable to commit. Is it possible though that if you have fallen prey to one SP that you are likely to attract another? Also, can a stare not reflect the supposed SP as having past hurts as mentioned and is trying to look deeper. At the end of the day it could work either way so the tests are extremely helpful however one would need to be assessed to be considered a SP for sure.

      2. You can’t tell If they have a conscience, it is just blatantly obvious when they haven’t got one!! When the truth comes out and the lies start to unravel is the only time you see their lack of conscience. When you see what they can do to you with no guilt no remorse and no shame.

      3. Yes If you have fallen prey to one and begin dating before you are healed you are more likely to attract another as a sp will offer to heal your broken heart and be everything that your psycho ex wasn’t. But of course this is all pretend.

      4. Not true. If we trully love a person we care to an extent. I am not a danger to my fiance. I love him and he understands that if he acts illogical I will not be emotionally gentle. I am cold calculating and intelligent. I do not manipulate because most of the human population is too annoying. I am not a leach and do not lie because it is too time consuming. You people trully are sheeple

      5. Lol yeah we are ‘sheeple’ you know what I would prefer to have the ability to love and to feel emotions. I would rather be like that than to live in the dark cold world that you do. I don’t need to be calculating – because I am happy. I have the ability to feel…. due to this – I will always be the winner.

      6. Lol yeah we are ‘sheeple’ you know what I would prefer to have the ability to love and to feel emotions. I would rather be like that than to live in the dark cold world that you do. I don’t need to be calculating – because I am happy. I have the ability to feel…. due to this – I will always be the winner.

      7. All sociopaths lie…. you say that you are cold and calculating whoopee…. and as for how you are with your fiance, I am sure that he has something you want. Wonder what would happen if he tried to leave you? and you didn’t want that? Am sure you would absolutely be a danger to him and would do all you could to punish him and destroy him. Sure sociopaths can be great, until they dont get what they want.

    1. The key phrase here is “could there be hope” and “I want to believe”. IF this man is a sociopath, but he is being very open about it to you, then it is nothing but a tactic to gain your sympathy and compassion for his otherwise unforgivable behavior. Waiting for him to “get help” and “change” could drag out for years while he systematically sucks every last bit he can get from you. Do NOT be fooled. Remember, actions are the only true indicator of change, not words. Don’t hold your breath waiting to see the proof of his transformation though, life is too short waiting for a sociopath to come through on a promise. (He never will.)

      My ex spath would usually confess and express remorse for the last set of grievances, coming “clean” about everything he’d done. He’d usually then claim he was changing, or that “he only hurts the ones he loves”, and with some sort of gut wrenching sickness I would let him creep back into my life so that he could turn around and commit a whole NEW set of offenses against me. The cycle is devastating to one’s self worth. Don’t get caught!

      1. The cycle of lies, deceit and cheating are never ending and don’t forget it! The SP will make you feel as if everything is your fault…the word “you” is in their every sentence (because they cannot accept responsibility for anything they do). The SP will break-down your self-esteem, try to remove you from all social contact so they can control you in every way and everything you know and feel about social interaction. They have no friends unless they can do something for them…once they get what they want they throw people away as if they are garbage and find every reason to hate them. They claim to be depressed because they only are able to have feelings for themselves. If you want to feel worthless, depressed, anger, anxiety and love to be used…marry a sociopath…I did and will always regret the years of love I could have given to someone able to love me back and appreciate what they were given, both emotionally and financially.

    2. Mine apologised. Said he ended it as I deserved better. But he had an agenda. The breakuo I wanted weeks before was manipulated to keep us together so he could control me & end it. He would tell me his apologies but also blame me. A show of conscience but at the same time leading a double life. You can not believe a word they say. And the hard part is still loving someone who never existed in the first place!

      1. I agree with alot of the things that you have said. The SP I was with was my ex-husband whom I was with for 12 years and married for 10. Within the past month or so I have just realized that he is a SP. The reason that I filed for divorce was because I caught him cheating for the last time. He copped to cheating for 8+ years. (I actually believe it was for 11 years). Right after he told me about the 8 years, he quickly told me that wasn’t true. He’s so good at what he does, he can tell you one thing one minute and the next minute tell you he never said that. I also know that he only apologized to me approximately 2 times the whole time we were together he didn’t take responsibility for anything. I also know that he tried to blame me for his infidelity. And what’s even crazier is that for a period of time, I took that on! I wonder what I did wrong. I kept telling people, I love him, I love him. But I also knew that I don’t even know this man. How can I love someone that I’ve never known? I loved the man that I thought he was. When I filed for divorce, he asked me not to gossip about him to our friends, which I didn’t. I only spoke to my close friends, who aren’t gossips. He didn’t do the same. He said things to people that I thought were my friends, because I’d see them once and I wouldn’t see them again. I know that I’m not perfect but I haven’t done anything to make people not want to be around me. Anyway, I’m sad that my marriage ended but I’m also glad that my marriage ended.

    3. My counsellor says most people will exhibit sociopathic traits from time to time. Its when they are always present the person can be catogorised as a sociopath. Sometimes when I read peoples stories I think “no, that guy is not a sociopath, but he sure is a prick”. lol

    4. They say after 30 it may improve BUT if they are immature forget it. If you are like me, caring and sensitivities with a lot of positive energy think about some of the monumental things that have happened, be real about it. Is it affecting who you are as a person, does it make your life better or makes you suffer. Is his low self esteem creeping over to you? One thing I came away with is that we cannot save ppl, that is a very hard concept to grasp but it will save you a lot of heartache. When I told the sociopath my feelings his response was to move away. How painful is that? I have learned so much about myself, you will too.

  3. Questions:

    Do you think a SP can have a conscience but yet still have most of the symptoms of sociopathy? (Moving fast into relationships, initial obsession, the stare, narcissism, evading direct questions, accusing you of cheating or lying, CONTROLLING everything, temper tantrums, lack of patience, boredom issues, financial issues, unable to cooperate or compromise, unable to keep a steady job due to inability to take direction, blaming all problems on others – always looking at another or pointing the finger to highlight someone else’s shortcomings when he’s called out for doing something, petty lying (who knows possibly tall tales as well), lack of intimate friendships and close family relationships etc. and still be called a sociopath? A trait not specifically mentioned that I felt that this man had was overstepping personal boundaries. It could tie in with the fact that the SP does not care what others think so they just do whatever they feel they want to do. I remember how fast he moved in and changed things in my home without discussion. I would’ve agreed to alot but he just made it very split. It was outside the bedroom and then inside the bedroom, never interacting with the rest of the house ever for the most part. He had OCD and was
    in need of routine/structure, which I thought was wonderful as I needed a bit of that and this is the good part that I take moving forward.

    The SP told me someone had indicated he was a SP but the only thing is he had a conscience. Have you heard of that? If that would be the case, couldn’t therapy help him? ALL the qualities I’ve identified hold true. Another strange thing is that I do believe he told me much of the truth about himself and do not feel that the info was grandiose in any manner. I’ve watched him tell petty lies for no real apparent reason that didn’t make sense to me and found it strange but not harmful. What are your thoughts?

    Could there be hope for him if he did have a conscience and acknowledged the traits and characteristics possibly receiving medication and therapy to change the behavioral patterns? I wanted to believe if I could research the condition (the condition he told me he had and I knew nothing about; we could discuss and truly make this work). How would you if someone truly has a conscience if the SP’s place masks on their faces to most people charming them with their outgoing and larger than life presence?

    1. Sociopaths are manipulative and deceptive. Without an actual diagnosis from a doctor, it is impossible to say whether someone is a sociopath or not. However, Sociopaths don’t immediately portray the lack of conscience, so this isn’t something that is evident. It is displayed when they do something incredibly hurtful and then act as if nothing has happened and why are you making a fuss? Terrible things which other people would feel bad about, the sociopath doesn’t. They also struggle to empathise – they can sympathise, but not truly empathise. They are unable to put themselves into someone elses shoes. Somebody could have sociopathic traits, but not be a sociopath – sociopaths are manipulative, deceptive, have an agenda, use others for their own needs, wear a mask of deception – pretending to be something that they aren’t. When the truth comes out, they show a stunning lack of empathy, and zero conscience for how much they have hurt you. They don’t care at all. They can’t as they just don’t have that part of their brain the same.

      1. I only ever got the apology after breaking free and he wanted me back in the web again. Which I fell for. Everytime. I just hope I can be strong when it comes again. It will.

    2. Sociopaths pretend to have a conscience. They pretend all positive emotions like any kind of caring.

      And in my experience with a sociopath husband, I realized after I researched socioapthic behavior if I reframed scenarios and reactions he had, and things he said from the point of view of a socioapthic mind that his “good” reactions were in fact his own because he thought he was getting away with getting what he wanted – his hidden agenda was being fulfilled and I was unaware. He was thrilled in those moments.

      During those moments I interpreted them from a normal point of view and mistakenly thought we were on the same page and were happy about something for the same reason.

      This made him appear to have a conscience. In reality he was just pleased that his con game was moving forward.

  4. ok.. my original soc and I broke up a while back and I have been doing much better. I have been concentrating on me and I am actually happy. I just met someone who seems great.. here’s the problem. I have been reading so much and educating myself about sociopaths that I am really not so sure this new guy is not in fact a one. I am going to take it very slow, and see how / if he mirrors me. If he is in fact one, what the hell am I doing wrong?? Just in the couple of days of meeting him this is what I already know. He has had problems in his juvenile years. I know he doesn’t have a good relationship with his mother. He is a fire fighter/police officer.. death doesn’t seem to bother him the way he talks, and the stories he told were upsetting, but he said as long as it wasn’t his family he was ok.. I try to rationalize this with all that he has seen and been through with his profession. He mentioned if he could be president what he would do and change. He seems to really like himself after all I’ve already received several pics of him. However, after asking him if he “really liked himself” because of all the pics I received that has now stopped. He sends sweet text messages and I’m suppose to meet him again Friday with his friends. Now that I typed it all out, I am thinking he is but idk.. any insight on this ladies?? Am I over reacting??

    1. Sounds like you should pay attention but hard to tell. What was he looking for with pic sending?? Did you meet online or something? As for the death thing I have a paramedic friend and they just deal…she’s a loving wonderful person and she has said the same thing almost verbatim. The mummy issues… I had that too. Other than that I don’t know what to do…but I’m only four days after crisis and in post traumatic stress. :(

    2. I have just ended a relationship with a sociopath. I am in the recovery phase. Reading your post my heart dropped. I actually thought you were talking about my ex. The exception was the police officer part. He is not. Let me just say HUGE “red flags” went up. If they don’t have a good relationship with or do not respect the woman who gave them life. Don’t expect them to respect you. You are amazing and beautiful – you deserve better. Believe that!!! I wish you the best!

    3. Indygirl71,

      Since you’re asking, I have a question for you:

      Why would you date a guy who has problems with his mother, isn’t bothered by death, is a Police officer, had problems in his juvenile years…? All of that adds up to big trouble.

      — And you’re trying to rationalize?!

      Socioapths and bad boys count on us rationalizing and making excuses for them.

      TRUST YOURSELF… RUN!!!! — You’re here asking for a reason: Because it doesn’t feel right. Isn’t that enough?

      With all the trouble and sorrow you’ve gone through from being with a sociopath, why would you let yourself in for any of the things mentioned here whether he’s a sociopath or not?! How bad does bad have to be before it’s enough?

      I am a strong believer that we need to wait at least one year from the last anniversary of the last moment our sociopath was in our life in any way before we even think about dating.

      Socioapths and bad boys and players alike can read when a woman is vulnerable. They come in and play us easy as pie.

      I hope you can skip meeting him again and end the texting. He’s not good enough for you. You deserve far, far better.

  5. My 14-year-old daughter just ended a relationship with her 15-year-old sociopathic boyfriend. He fit every requirement for a sociopath; if it was a survey with a checkbox, every single box would be checked. It really makes you wonder if they are born that way. He is an only child from a seemingly loving family and is very spoiled. I wish he had to wear a shirt with a warning printed on it.

    1. Lauren,

      Socioapths are born that way. It can be seen in brain scans. As young as 3 years old there is a difference in the brain development. By age 10 – 12 the part of the brain that allows us to feel empathy, care, concern, love doesn’t develop. Acting out with hostility or violence happens around age 10 -12. From there on it’s a ramp up to fully blown sociopathic behavior, pathological lying, control, abuse and scamming.

  6. The first thing I noticed about my ex Sociopathic husband was on our first date he kept trying to touch me as we were seated talking in the restaurant…not normal really on a first date but I ignored it…should have skipped the coffee!
    He also had a fascination when I was in the bathroom of saying “what are you doing,, can I watch” and trying to open the door, but when I called him on it he laughed it off like a naughty little kid.. I was wondering if this type of behaviour is common with sociopaths..
    Strangely I used to know a girl who told me similar things about her husband and at the time I thought she was exaggerating because he seemed so nice and normal. Then she left him for abuse…should have learned from that I guess

  7. Positivagirl, please help me! I am in such a bad way tonight, yesterday. Despite all my attempts to NC since last New Year’s Day, when I felt totally discarded after a brief fling with my ex! I thought I had welcomed into my life, only to find him the next day acting suspicious, making me paranoid. His reasons for being unavailable on New Years day made me angry, yet they seemed believable. Now I here I sit, crying my eyes out, a terrible rush of emotion that had me compose an unsent text. I think I butt-dialed him on my mobile, I am not sure it rang long enough for it to register. I am having a severe panic attack. Uncontrollable crying. All I know to do is to reach out to you on here, my only support. My friends think I am bat shit nuts to even consider defending his actions and yet now I feel as though I have made a dreadful mistake. I am not sure he is a sociopath! I had said in previous posts that maybe he is a hybrid. I mean, he doesn’t have all the traits, he is self-supportive. He doesn’t lie about a bunch of stuff I have ever verified. He has lied a bit but don’t we all? He does seem cold and distant, but I have seen glimmers of sincerity in him. Could it be, since the death of my mom, and him losing his mom only ten years ago, that maybe he withdrew and made a mistake due to the chance meeting of this guy he had an affair with by happenstance on his fucking cruise. Can we, do we not forgive some things humans do? I can go back in my past and know how horribly I have hurt others in the cheating dept. Is this karma? OMG I am so wretchedly in pain, my heart literally feels as though it will burst out of my chest! I had blocked him on my mobile, only to have unblocked tonight for the slim chance that he would be sending me some goofy message like he used to. And now I feel so totally stupid. Why can’t I move on, why am I so terrified of losing him? Yes, he is not the man so many would fall for, he is not the greatest of all humans, nor the cutest or anything other superficial. But he kept coming back for ME, and I have rejected him so many times only to relent and keep it going, due to all my other circumstances. Is this a life lesson that I must bear? Am I being a fool for going through even the thought of resuming contact all on the supposition that maybe he really is the psychopath I thought he was? Maybe I am the one with the real psychotic problems, he used to joke that I was crazy! And I’ve heard/read from great philosophers that we are ALL on the edge of being batshit crazy at any given moment. My GOD what a weird place to be, to have all this consciousness and the pressures of what that involves. I literally would take a pill right this moment if I could to totally erase these thoughts. I needed/wanted to go to sleep early for tomorrow, and yet here I sit in total chaos. Am I being a drama queen like he always says I am? Did I pick up on some of my drama from maybe my drama-makers that are oddly absent from my life anymore?
    I don’t know what to think. All I know is I feel a profound loss, and not a loss where a person was abusing you constantly, either physical or emotional, but maybe just a little and I ran with it. I created his symptoms to satisfy a need to be more normal? To be superior? Oh God, if I have, I guess it’s too late, he’s love bombing someone new and perhaps moved on. I almost don’t want to hear what he would say if I professed my position to him at this point. SO what do you do in this situation? Have I made a huge mistake and now must suffer the consequences? Or do I embrace what life has shown me and deal with it? I guess only I can answer that! I already feel better that I have written these thoughts down. IF anybody has read this tonight or in the morning, please chime in with your thoughts. Reality is driving me nuts! Somebody please help me through this!

    1. Hi eldadude sorry for delay have only just seen your post. My first thought was unless you have not discovered the lies. Sociopaths are compulsive pathological liars and masters of deception and illusion. My thoughts are it does not matter what he is. But how he makes you feel. How you feel about yourself with him. Does he damage your life (sociopaths do they can’t help it).

    2. Telling you that you are crazy. Is not a joke. It is emotional abuse. If he was a sociopath you would have no doubt about it, once you knew the truth. They do create carnage and work against you, in the guise of working for you.

    3. Wow, edaldude, what happened? Surprised to hear you working so hard to justify him. “Cold and distant with glimmers of sincerity.” You and I could’ve been dating the same guy. Is this what you want?? Anyone can pull off a facade in the short-term.

      “He has lied a bit but don’t we all?” I’m about sure you probably don’t start a relationship with the hope this is what you will find. My soc told the truth sometimes too. lol! What was really sick though is that he lied on the big things; the important stuff. It’s not quantity, friend, it’s quality. One truly destructive lie is one too many.

      One thing is certain—you are addicted. You need some distance to locate yourself. When you can do that clear-headed, then ask yourself this question again.

    4. Edaldude, I can tell you from being in a very emotionally abuse relationship for on and off 7 years with a SP, you CANNOT expect to get your power back whilst playing into his hands. Most SP’s know what your next move is let me tell ya. They are sick people and are not governed by normality. The best thing you can do for yourself is walk away when he least expects it…that is if he isn’t violent. If he is violent, get your family to surround you and get the police involved. You DO NOT have to be a victim of emotional abuse. No one deserves to have their soul played with. It is sick and vile and you need to get your power back by showing him who is in control. You do not need to have emotional breakdowns or be tormented by someone who is incapable of the type of love you deserve. You need to take your life back for you. When I made this decision, I literally closed the door to his nonsense and sobbed and released all that I felt and thought I knew. I sobbed in the shower, on the couch, in bed….I spoke to people about it and verbalized it so that I had people i became accountable to. You can do it! You have it in you to be loved and cherished and not treated like an option. Go for it!

    5. Hi Eldadude,

      What you are going through is normal after being with a sociopath.

      I have a friend who went back to her sociopath boyfriend four times.

      I was married to a sociopath for 10 1/2 months. – truelovescam. I helped my friend get away from her boyfriend as I was getting away from my “husband”.

      Socioapths have the effect of making us doubt ourselves. They make us weak and weepy and hysterically devastated. it can get so bad they can make us feel suicidal.

      Here’s the thing: Do you want to feel terrible in a relationship?

      Probably not.

      He makes you feel horrible and miserable. So stay away. It is not easy. It is easy for me to type that. It is not easy to do.

      What I did was find a good solid definition of 10 guide lines of what a socioapth is and how they take people through relationships: 5 stages of love scam. I memorized this.

      Then I reframed every scenario, conversations we had, little moments as they came to my mind from the point of view of a sociopathic mind. I saw them for what they were. I saw what he was really thinking – instead of what I had assumed he was thinking, as if he had been normal.

      When we review our relationship normally we do it from our own point of view. This is not an accurate picture of what is happening in a relationship with a sociopath because — there is no relationship. It is all manipulation based on the way they think.

      Stay strong. Sty no contact. Get around people who are real who really love you. Someone who has gone through this. Your friends will not understand.

      You can do it. I did. My friend Deanna did. My friend Denise did. My friend Alyssa did. My cousin’s friend did. My neighbor’s friend Marti did. My co-worker’s friend’s mom did.

      Karma is made by our actions. karma is made by causes: what we do, say and believe. This is a great chance to make some good karma for yourself. Stand up by staying away from him. Make a cause for good relationships. Do not put up with a bad one. Stand up and value yourself.

      Sending you strength.

    6. Its ok EDU.
      You are going through a lot right now, there is a lot of pressure on you. Focus on little steps, little accomplishments. This might be one of the biggest challenges you go through. Know that we are here for you. Maybe you could always call a person to talk. I call a call center in the US if you want the number I can get it for you , they are 24 hours a day.

      1. Windsong- Jennifer Smith, I just want to note that these passages by me are from a YEAR AGO! I know it is confusing sometimes and I did a double take when I read my own words from a year ago! At anyrate, thanks for you two’s jumping in there as though was fresh!
        I always appreciate hearing words of encouragement even a year later!
        Alas, I am in still in the boat with this creature, but it’s not the turmoil it was a year ago. His game is so predictable, but mine is just trying to move on and yet….I seem entangled in the mess still, somehow. But I don’t get all wrapped up in his theatrics like I once did. And when my heart starts thinking long term, I know instantly it is a farce. I know so many of you are like “WTF” get out! But, my choices at this date are not so much or many in this world. Even if it is at my own expense, I do bide my time with this situation as we all have to weigh in on what we are willing to do or put up with. I know I feel bad enough about it, so no one holler at me about how stupid I am to do! Just try to understand and pray he leads me to something better!
        UPDATE: he just tonight told me he is going to therapy ( lies?). I warned him if he was indeed doing so, then for the love of God don’t lie to his therapist about the truth. I know his attempt at recovery is probably impossible, but who knows? All I know is what a long, strange trip this has been…

  8. Jusagirl, you are right I am addicted. The proof is in the pudding as I, i my state of supreme sorrow, accidently called him last night in the wee hours ( I swear I was just looking at a video we had made together before all this latest round of BS). So, I cried composing a text to him, but didn’t send it. Now, a day later so much slippage on this slippery slope of “love” I have fallen once again.

    The difference? He called me today, we talked, I tried to stay with friends, but soon found myself making excuses to go and be with him once more. But then I was going to not have him come by as he was, once again, pushing for! But he left a bombshell that exploded all over my being- he’s leaving tomorrow after work to go and stay the weekend with the new love down in Houston. See what I mean? He could’ve lied, but after I said tonight wasn’t any good and why not meet up this weekend like we always did before, he told me about this trip. So yeah, anxiety filled, I kept my composure and questioned him about where this was going. And he had a valid answer, after last week’s fiasco on new year’s day. Oh yeah, I brought that up, and he as usual said that how’s was he to know where “we” were at from one more night of intense pleasure, and me jumping to give him coffee.

    He told me this other person “is laid back, doesn’t question him all the time, makes him laugh, etc.” I was like, “well, he’s only known you LONG DISTANCE for a couple months” give it some time! He know’s it’s true, he knows all the bad attitude and just generally crappy behaviour he leaves on my doorstep. It took about 2 months of us dating ( seeing each other many times throughout the week) for me to see his dark sides.

    So I made a deal with him, he could go off and do it, no questions asked as long as he will be honest when he returns next week about what he thinks now ( after all, this will be the first time since they were on the cruise that they spend a lot of time together). We made passionate love, and upon him leaving just now he offered to show me a picture of him ( a video he shot of them on the cruise). Incredibly gorgeous this person is ( and I think, LOL, way too gorgeous for him!)!
    I know people like this, and even though they are coming out of a supposedly 8 year relation, I don’t give it long at all that this would last. But that doesn’t change anything. I am okay. Certainly better then the dispair I was in last night. Why? Because I was satisfied to be with him on the physical level, the level me and him are only the most best with ourselves.

    Does that make any sense? Like I said, this blog is for people dealing with true, hateful sociopaths. I don’t think mine is, and I am not making excuses, I think he suffers from something less severe if not equally distressing. Narcissism, low self esteem? Don’t us humans come with a barrage of mental issues. Yes, I get your point, and I can see how anyone looking on the outside could say how pathetic I’ve become to allow. But, like this thread was talking about, we have to come to a place of understanding and forgiveness, and I guess I wanted to show that. I DO forgive him I guess for what has happened. It could’ve happened to me, but never had such a thing like that happen, doesn’t mean it can’t. And I have chatted and talked to some new people on this dating website and will continue to do so.

    I don’t know what will become of us. I do know that the addiction I have for someone I loved for almost 5 years is not something I can let go so easily ( DUH). I do know that, like many have commented on here, that he told me the likes of tonight that he’s not relationship material, he doesn’t want marriage, or kids, or anything like that. So he wants me to “just go with the flow”, and that’s what I did. I figure, this blog is my place to get some ideas exchanged, and we all are on a path to figuring out things. I want a loyal lover. We know now that is not going to happen. I don’t know if he will have a blast this weekend and it will peter out between us now. Or, the opposite could happen. Who knows? I feel like I can pull off keeping him in this new light, or not. Only time will tell. Him showing me how gorgeous this person is, I seriously can’t see it being a long term thing- I cannot believe he would be able to pull off being so great as that their chemistry will be anything more than physical.

    Or I could be totally wrong, they hit it off, and he soon moves to be closer to them. I am at the mercy of time, but like I say, I am NOT going to wait around for him to be who I need him to be. If, in the unlikely event that we patch things up and somehow get back to focusing on us, well, I will worry about that bridge to cross when I get to it. So it’s open season! I can continue to date and get to know, and he can believe that this new fling is the answer to his life. I am going to try and be hippie laid back, and like I said, go with the flow. Am I crazy and stupid? Probably, but it seems like I have seen too many get caught up in whether a situation is black or white. We even talked about that tonight. There are gray situations, and I think this is one of them. But I must keep this a secret- all of our’s secrets on here. Nobody that knows me will accept this decision, hell, maybe I will wake up tomorrow and be against it again. I don’t know. But I do feel clarity. I do think he has shown me honesty about this situation and I will give him credit. Life is too short, yeah, and that is why I will continue to seek a soulmate. In due time we shall see what becomes of this soap opera. Will I have anyone there to listen on here? Will you all let me explore this new avenue and not judge? No judge! LOL
    I want you all’s input and together we help each other. I will soon know what the answer is, or not. I just hope you all will not abandon me, or be thrown off this site. Please everyone, don’t give up on me!

    1. Oh Edaldude,

      I so get it. He is so manipulating you. You are in the heart of a relationship with a sociopath. You aren’t addicted. He’s got his socipath black magic and venom still running through you.

      I would not judge you for anything. He has you in his sick clutches. You will get way eventually.

      It will most likely take some specific horrendous thing he does to break the spell. Until then you will be his yo-yo.

      This is normal for being under the spell of a sociopath. Please don’t judge yourself. I am not judging you. I so wish you could get away immediately. I can see you aren’t there yet though.

      He is a classic sociopath – they are all the same.

      When you’re with him, or when you’re remembering moments with him, please try and notice… Do you fell kind of like you’re in two “minds” at once?

      Sort of like there is the conversation in the room and you’re looking at him and you’re there, but there’s another part of you outside that? Slightly above and to the left of your head… Another place you’re looking at the conversation from and a place you’re kind of questioning what is going on?

      That’s how I used to feel when my sociopath was spinning a lie or whole crazy story or proposing some bizarre thing that he presented as “normal” that I would go along with and rationalize.

      I’ll be sending you good thoughts.

  9. @Edaldude
    I will go back and read the rest of your comments in a bit, but I had to respond to paragraph 4: You made a deal with him? After you outlined to him, and yourself, what the appeal of the other person is? He is pleasing himself. Selfishly. And, if you will continue to sit there awaiting his return, he will happily let you do that, use you, entertain himself, and throw you away. You are hurting yourself, knowingly. Simple sex is not worth your self-respect, ED. :( More to follow…

  10. I have reread today what I wrote after last night’s passion, Jusagirl. Okay, my thoughts weren’t too succinct and I didn’t put down a lot of what I was meaning to. Of course, it was not anything specific that I left out, but I just can’t seem to lay out what I really am feeling. Of course, if you read my old blogs on the many threads on here, through the course of everything that has happened to me, you will think ( as would anyone familiar in my life) that I am batshit crazy to even have missed with this again. You know what I left out is that he only made this trip this weekend because I didn’t ever call him back last week after that terrible day! I told him last night that he had been a total jerk ( in a nice way) and how would he have felt if I had done this to him!
    This is where I think he is not a true spath- he agreed!
    He then went on to say he thought that we would never work in a relationship because as many times as we tried, it always ends in fighting. I gently reminded him that most of that friction was the immature way he handles conflict, and that with some therapy ( which I still would be willing to explore with him) could go a long way in solving that. I think we left it at the doorstep of maybe.

    Prolonging my suffering? No, I don’t think so this time ( and I may totally be kidding myself). But I plan to keep using my PAID membership on this dating site, and maybe join some others. I think if I can meet someone like he did ( cute, successful, funny) I would soon be able to let this whole sorry mess go. And I know that it’s not healthy to try and date while you are still attached. But I am not attached. I truly feel my healthy relationship with him had ended a long time ago. You see, I have been the one that was lazy with moving on, because I am lazy, and he kept up the antics with me just enough for me to go along with it. Truth is, he will probably have a blast down there this weekend, and won’t be bothering me much anymore. I bought a bit of happiness ( and paid for it with my heart) last night. I know it will be difficult to meet anyone, hell it’s already been a letdown but it hasn’t been that long on this new site. I still have options. I must learn to get out and socialize, which is perhaps my life’s biggest struggle. Always had a tough time meeting new friends/lovers. It has been a cause of depression in my life since a teenager! God, I can remember only in my twenties being satisfied briefly, but I fell back into the loneliness. Despite me being somewhat of a homebody, I always envied people with active social lives. Alas, I am in the autumn of my life pretty much intact except for this bitter relationship.

    I am not saying it’s better to be in a lousy relationship then nothing at all, but part of being a wallflower is to find contentment with what you have. I don’t at all recommend anyone in a seriously abusive relationship to continue on, as this blog is set up for those that indeed are suffering from severity. Mine is like I said, in a gray area, on the fringes. I am not even sure he could be considered a spath? I think he harbors many odd, negative traits, but I do feel that deep down he does perhaps love me more then anyone he’s ever known. I think that is why he, even after committing to this trip, will come back and remain in contact. I would love it if this trip, which I would never try to stop him from taking, is a journey he NEEDS to explore. I was his age, too ( remember he is 16 years younger) and so that is why I am in the thinking that he’s got to explore this part of his life. Maybe this new person will breakdown his old persona and help him to grow into a new and improved version. Or not. Like I said, I am on this trip called life like everyone else. I don’t want to look back on this and think how I just rolled over and let him have his affair and hurt me. That is why I plan to hopefully get my act together, and meet new people like I have done on this website, if only I can find someone as nearly supportive as all of you have been!
    I still say, ask the Universe for something different, special, or exciting, and it usually delivers. Sometimes sooner then you’d think! Happy Friday to everyone!

  11. Honestly, ED, when you say things like this (justifications): “You know what I left out is that he only made this trip this weekend because I didn’t ever call him back last week after that terrible day! I told him last night that he had been a total jerk ( in a nice way) and how would he have felt if I had done this to him! This is where I think he is not a true spath- he agreed!” I really wonder where you are in the world, and if we were seeing the same guy.

    What’s different about your message now, is that, in the first, you were acknowledging what can never be, and in this one, you are back to hoping that will change with counseling he really doesn’t seem interested in. I think you are holding out hope because he gives you just enough crumbs to keep you, but not really what you want or need, or what is good for you.

    You and I could have the same story. I decided to see others too, thought that put me in the driver’s seat. He messed that up because I still really just wanted to be with him. He messed up any chance for me to be free though because he would say he was coming, then cancel. With this type person, they like to keep their options open, while tying yours up.

    Your mood is also more upbeat now, and the only thing that’s changed is that you’ve been able to reason with yourself how you can see him again. I see you heading for a crash. I know you don’t want to hear that but, I wouldn’t be authentic if I didn’t say it. Doesn’t mean I don’t understand and relate to it. You know, he could’ve canceled the trip though. Someone who really cared about you, once they knew you cared too, would have.

    1. I know he’s a spath, but there are some days where I just don’t want to believe it. I think, maybe there is a sliver of a chance that I’m overreacting. I’ve turned and twisted, trying to justify his behaviors, but nada! It’s useless! Doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt. he question remains…can you love a sociopath and stay one step ahead of him? Or is playing the game just a waste of time?

      1. Yes its a waste of time and energy as they are ALWAYS playing a game. Life is a game. They turn good things into bad. As if it is good, they fear that they have lost control, so they take back control. Read the post confusion of kindness if he is being ‘good’ and you are confused.

  12. Jusagurl, you’ve been in my shoes, many on here I suspect have. I know I am guilty as charged of making excuses for his actions. That’s why this whole thing is a cyber confessional secret. Anyone that knows me would be mortified to hear that I’ve said and done this now. Reminds me of a story, early on in our relations, when one time, upon his graduation from college, I put together some planter boxes for his patio and delivered them. We were out there on his balcony and I was trying to help him put it together ( being the gardener in the family). He got angry that I wouldn’t stop trying to help, and wouldn’t just sit there and let him do it wrong! It led into a big argument ( I was mad that he wouldn’t let me do it for him) and he threatened to call the police if I wouldn’t leave! I was so shocked that I did start to leave ( he was on his phone acting like he had called)! He told me to go down to my truck in the parking lot and wait for him to call me back after he collected himself and would give me permission to come back up if he did decide so! Yeah, he called after I finished my cigarette, I went back up. But you know, the whole way home from that experience I was saying out loud to myself, I cannot tell anyone what has happened with this psycho. I literally have to treat him as a total secret lover. Nobody would understand putting up with such theatrics! That was over 3 years ago!

    So, from what you are saying, my “using” him for what physical pleasure we still enjoy, until I find someone new, is not going to work? Even if I blessed this trip? I don’t think I would’ve wanted him to cancel, ironically! I want him to move on! I should see this as a gift from the Universe because as we even discussed last night, we can’t seem to make a relationship work. He’s an asshole, he knows he is. I don’t even want to be considered his lover. But it’s too late for what has happened and both of us carry around all the history we have of one another. Does that make sense? I mean, me desperately trying to hold on to something so wrong is not what’s happening. I am using this as a vehicle to go onto the next phase of my life. I have no hope that he will somehow reverse his decision, and no hope that he could ever be the type of person to settle down with now. I’ve known this fact for some time. Like I said, I am lazy, and yes I am making excuses for this situation, as horrible as they may be, it at least buys me some time to move on. I looked up some support groups locally today and will continue the quest for healing. I hope what I am doing is not so far-fetched as to be self-destructive. I hope that I can honestly look back in a year or so and think what ever became of him because he is NOT in my life.

    God I was so hooked on the physical side, I got all choked up with the prospect of being alone and look, I text him and BAM! He’s right back at my door the next night! I felt satisfied and yet full of anxiousness at what happened yesterday. Other people can think what they want, but how many out there really do have such a wonderful physical relationship, husband or otherwise? It took me so long to find someone like this- that satisfied me in such a profound physical way, it’s such a pity that they weren’t the complete package.
    I think as far as human relations go, there are a lot of worse things going on out there! Don’t worry, Jusagurl, I heed your warnings and I have my head somewhat on tight. I may indeed be walking into yet another minefield, but I’ll be damned if I know right now where else to go on this path called life! Thanks so much for your wonderful and kind insights! You didn’t beat me up, like so many of my friends do, you just humanly gave me some food for thought! You’re an angel! And anyone else on here, positivagirl especially, y’all are too!

    PS- Just between us, I hope that he has a lousy weekend and they both get food poisoning, and other minor accidents ruin his romantic getaway! LOL Just kidding…

    1. Edaldue,

      You are not lazy. You are not addicted. You are involved with a sociopath. Sex is usually amazing with a sociopath. Everything seems amazing with a sociopath

      There is no real relationship.

      Everything out of their mouth is a lie to manipulate us and get what they want.

      I am begging you to not date anyone else from anywhere, paid dating site or not. You are too vulnerable and are in no way ready to date. This is what it is to be with a sociopath. They completely warp our sense of what a relationship is. We need time to heal.

      Please leave him. Please take time to heal. Love yourself.

      1. Jennifer Smith, I started reading down and saw this- so I guess you are aware that this link is from a year ago? And yet, I do think about what you say about not dating! Sheesh- I don’t know about you, but for me to even get a date requires luck, skill, and determination. I have long since let my dating site expire ( got scammed on that one almost too)! What a wild ride this past year has been.
        And all to just wind up with him still rattling my cage ( again, my fault).
        I am not so delicate though. I am not going to believe anything that comes from his mouth as indeed I haven’t and even when I do believe, it still leaves me questioning!
        Oh the endless games and frustration! But it is much better in my world. I guess I have become numb to it after 6 mo NC? I did work on myself, trust me. I don’t get depressed or cry or any of that. I just sort of accept the unacceptable. And not just from him, from this whole thing called life.
        I look for the beauty and humor in life and feel contented. I just wish I could have found someone to share it with but if not, can continue to do alone!

      2. You know…. those dating sites are not good for you????…… keep going and when you do, you will build your own brand of wonderful, and in turn – you will attract wonderful towards you x

  13. can they be a SP without mirroring too much? The person i’m married too definitely has something wrong. cant put my finger on it. Here are some of the things he does-
    Always blames me for everything, in the small case he owns up to something and apologizes 99% of the time it happens again and therefore seemed fake, he constantly dumped me while dating, took my ring back 100 times while engaged, now married will leave over the dumbest things and packs up and moves back in with his parents (he is 32) and they allow it, he cant stand if i say anything about how he should “spend his money”, he refuses to get a checking account with me, he seems very secretive most of the time, he drinks a lot, tons of broken promises to stop these behaviors and never follows through, cries on the drop of a dime, anytime i seem upset after a “break up” he is nowhere to be found, as soon as I seem happy and as if im moving on he swarms in and is relentless, calling nonstop, needing to talk to me, crying, coming to my house multiple times, etc. He has lied many times about drinking, going out, what he was doing when he went out, etc. lying comes easily. sometimes in convos that are arguments he will repeat what i say- like if I said “well by all means go with your friends” then later in the convo he will use the phrase “by all means” for something when its not his normal lingo, seems happier to be “dating” me than acting married, at first said i love u in 2 weeks time and wanted to get married right away and had a prob that i wasnt super affectionate from the get-go, i let it go b/c i have known him since childhood, seems to go to church for a while to please me b/c after a while he stops and then im controlling if I ask him to go, which makes it like it was all fake the past few months when he was going, and the list can go on. His brother who is almost 40 does same thing with his wife, in/out, lives at home off and on.
    I didnt see too much mirroring though but maybe he does and i’m missing something? Definitely not the typical behavior of someone who is married and 32 yrs old. There is something amiss. I cant figure it out. There is a cycle and pattern that always repeats itself and i get hooked with false promises and lies only to have the same crap happen again.
    How do you guys deal with when you finally walk away and are beginning to feel happy and they come back and start calling/coming by needing to talk to you nonstop and cry- mine wont ever take no for an answer and he breaks me down until i say ill think about it, which turns into ok. then the cycle continues. its so hard b/c unless your being totally rude and nasty he dont take no for an answer. i have a child with him- i cannot have no contact yet.
    Thanks!

    1. “..hooked with false promises and lies..” — there’s the mirroring behaviour, telling you what you want to hear and pretending to be the man you want, in order to hook you into giving them what they want.

      1. Blue,

        Totally right!!! Exactly — In that moment he knew “truth” was what she valued… so he gave it to her. Plus they are vain and like to imagine themselves as desirable and talented sexually and are quite promiscuous. He certainly loved hearing himself talk about another woman who wants him, loved making her miserable hearing him say it and delivered what he knew would “buy” her – perceived as the “truth”. AND HE WAS RIGHT. Sociopaths are experts at what they do.

        She didn’t say, but I imagine there was a sweet expression on his face as he told her this. It was his inner delight at his accomplishments as mentioned above. He didn’t look sweet because he was being a good man.

  14. oh one more weird thing- if he moves out and then is begging me to come back and i say no. he will keep begging. then if i say ok come home, he will all of a sudden not want to come home. has his lists of reasons. OR sometimes if i continue to say no and he isnt getting anywhere, he will just come out of nowhere and mention he doesnt want to live with me. and im like uh i never asked you to. he has this thing of turning it around so its him the one saying no. happens all the time. is that SP?

  15. I have left my sociopath husband three months ago. He has tried to contact me many times…. Same old pattern of trying to worm back into my life. I am not allowing this time. I am glad we don’t have children.

  16. I don’t know how true but it has recently occurred to me that a sociopath is least likely to be involved in some sort of creative activity or have a job in a creative field as this requires volumes of self reflection. From my personal experience and the things I’ve read it seems like a sociopath would be fundamentally incapable of looking deep within themselves for answers, something every true artist does. That does not necessarily mean they can’t “do” art, but their perception of it is different. My ex used to play an instrument as a kid/teen and when I asked once why she wasn’t still playing it she said something along the lines “well, when you’ve already achieved everything there is to achieve and won every award it’s time to make space for the new generation” and I remember this striking me as something so irrelevant, we weren’t talking about a sport for crying out loud and as a musician myself I was struggling to understand such an approach to art. Now I understand that for her it was a sport,- win an award, move on to next activity.
    Just a random thought I thought I’d share on here.

    1. What an interesting thought Unevie. They don’t like to look too deep into themselves, possibly because there is no depth of substance to explore. Interesting concept too, with your ex, do you know for sure that she was telling the truth about the instrument and the awards? As she could have been lying. Any musician, artist would know that you are never perfect, there is always improvements to be made, always more knowledge and skill to be learned.

      1. I have no way of knowing as I’ve never heard her play, nor have I seen the awards or spoken to anyone who knew her when she was that age (not close to her family and doesn’t have any things of sentimental value like pictures on walls etc., very telling signs). Yes, I think you need to experience emotion and to reflect upon it, and more importantly when you love your art you will never abandon it. I know I won’t play at Carnegie Hall (and neither has my ex, by the way, so not all the possible awards have been won there, haha) but that doesn’t stop me from teaching and I experience almost physical suffering when I’m away from my instrument for too long and I had a feeling she had never experienced enjoyment from art. She was in a brass band and every time they would win a trophy all the stories she told me was how she would walk out looking down at the kids who didn’t win or how she would be allowed to pick new instruments for the band so she would choose who in the band would get them, or how they won when they played from a score that SHE had adapted etc. Nothing to do with art, pure competition and self praise. This is so against my idea of art and all my performance memories are closely connected to human emotions, how a composer cries when they hear their piece debut live, how you are worried you’d let other people down if you mess up your part.
        I think maybe a sociopath can be a successful artist to a point where they get credit with their skill, i.e. where interpretation isn’t a big part, although would we consider that art? They would go to great lenghts to get praise so they could develop a great deal of technique and become the best photo realistic painter or the world’s fastest pianist but there is no depth to their art.

      2. Then again, she could’ve been good for that level but couldn’t quite cross the bridge to the next level around the time when kids discover their style if they are destined to be great performers, but even those who drop music still pick up their instrument every once in a while. Maybe people around her started getting better at it and she couldn’t admit defeat.

      3. Oh I absolutely believe 100% that she was lying, as she was merely mirroring you. As you were a musician she faked that she was, to be just like you, so that you think that you have met someone who is just like you. You see, think about it. If you were incredibly good at something, and had won awards, would you not want to share that with your partner? Of course you would. You would only say what you say that she said – IF you had made it up, and it was a lie. The truth – will always set you free!!

      4. You’re probably right. It’s just so hard to imagine someone being able to lie so openly and blatantly, but if they believe they’ll never get caught, or believe in their own lie, it is possible. What makes me think that she believed in her own lies is another episode I just remembered, we were going to go see one of my teachers perform in concert but ended up not going and she made a comment that she would’ve been able to appreciate and understand that music more than anyone else in the audience that night and I wasn’t sure if that was a joke, still not sure what it was because say if any of my other teachers had been in the audience that night then they all have PhDs in music and have devoted their lives to it so I wonder if she actually believed she was better than them, or that she was better than performing students who are actually persuing a career. It’s shocking.

  17. As amazing and as shocking and almost impossible to make sense of as it is…. that is exactly what she believed. Sociopaths think they are better than anyone. ANYONE. – However – at the same time they know they are lying. The comment about enjoying the music was made to you, and you alone. Likely your friend would have absolutely avoided an actual one on one with any of the other educated audience members or professional musicians. That comment was for your benefit — well – for your friend’s benefit, her own benefit – in order to gain your trust and admiration in order to continue taking from you.

    The only reason a sociopath says or does anything is to leave an impression of themselves and get what they want. They do not care, love, have empathy, or any positive connecting emotions to anyone. Not their mom, their brother, their girlfriend or their dog. They are not able to. Their brain is missing that synapse – it’s missing that area where those feelings are “felt”.

    Learn the traits of a sociopath. Reframe all these kinds of scenarios from the point of view of their brain. Separate yourself – because anything they say or do – thought it looks and feels personal – is not.

    My name above will take you to some information.

  18. I have a question – How would you classify this man? I am back and forth between so many things.
    We were together 8 years. We have a child together and I thought we had a okay relationship. Only problems we had were days he would come in from work and ignore me, but I just brushed it off as him being tired. One day, after a pretty petty argument he tells me and his child to get out. He said he no longer loves me anymore. Okay, I see this happening a bit so I didn’t think too much about it. Well, we left and the day we left he started a new relationship with a woman at work. Was it a new relationship? No, I don’t think so – I think they had formed an emotional bond and he had been preparing himself for an exit. Now – He treats me as if I am the one who cheated, as if I am the one who ended the relationship. This came out of no where to me and I certainly wasn’t expecting it. When he picks up our child for visitation, he gives me the silent treatment. He refuses any kind of conversation with me. I have talked to him about our child and he does not respond. He has denied this other woman for 8 months. He continued to say they were just friends – Yes, she was with someone else also – but she discarded her husband 4 months after I was dicarded. Just last week – after 9 months they have decided to let people know they are actually dating. Before she was hiding her car behind his house – Imagine a 48 yr old woman hiding her car like a school girl. Anyway – My child can call my EX and he refuses to talk to my child the days he does not have him for visitation. He sent a text asking for my child to call him but when my child does call, he refuses to answer the phone and he never returns the call. He goes out of his way to not talk to me. Surely, that has to be a chore in itself to actually go to the lengths he goes to in order to ignore me. How could any man after spending 8 years with someone who he loved dearly for those 8 yrs go from that to NOTHING. I can’t decipher his behavior anymore. Actually, I laugh at his behavior now. I just can’t decide if he is a sociopath or a weak man in love. Even if he was in love, there is no justification for ignoring his child just because he is in my care.

    1. Hi, you are right, no there is no justification for ignoring his child.

      The only thing that I think ‘not sociopath’ is that you say that he was normal for 8 years, and that he loved you dearly for that time. Sociopaths are not like this. They are disordered, which means that they repeat the same patterns of behaviour from the beginning. You would have noticed earlier than 8 years when he met someone else. What was your relationship like in those 8 years? Was it normal?

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