This site, is written for the benefit of victims, not sociopaths. However, sociopaths do read and sometimes comment on this site. Personally as long as there are no personal attacks, this is fine with me. After all, a sociopath will show themselves and how they think and feel quite clearly. This too, is learning, and knowledge is power. The truth will help to set you free.
Recently over the last couple of months, I have had quite a lot of complaints about my post where I wrote that sociopaths cannot love. I have re-read the post, and I still think that there is a lot of truth there. However, yet more comments (and email) are sent saying that this viewpoint is wrong, and is damaging? (which is kind of ironic that sociopaths can complain about what is ‘damaging’ :).. moral outrage at it’s finest huh?
You can read the original I love you page and comments here https://datingasociopath.com/sociopath-character-traits/cunning-and-manipulative/i-love-you/
I am going to post the comments here. These are comments from sociopaths who maintain that they CAN love, and that I am wrong. I would be interested in your thoughts, should I change this post? Am I wrong to assume that the sociopath cannot love? I struggle to understand how ‘control’ can equate to ‘love’.
Sociopath (s) ‘moral outrage’ comments on this post! (I apologise if they are not being in order – this is wordpress)
I think that this is a very inaccurate description of what dating a sociopath is like. Sociopaths can, in fact, experience love. It is different for everyone and to write about such a stigmatized disorder in this way is harmful.
Although the psychopathic traits mentioned here can very easily and lead to dangerous levels of manipulation, they don’t have to.
With tremendous effort we can manage it. I’m now seen as someone of intense understanding and observation with a keen strategic instinct.
I know where those traits come from, yet I’ve made the conscious choice to use them for the betterment of friends, acquaintances, and society.
People confide in me extraordinary things because they know, no matter what, I will not be judging them.
It’s true that I don’t “feel” guilt or remorse, except to the extent that it affects me directly, but I do feel other emotions, which don’t have proper words of description, but nevertheless cause me to derive satisfaction in developing interpersonal relationships, contributing to society, and being gentle as well as decisive.
Because I’m in a foul mood I am going to comment on something that’s none of my business. You conveniently “forget” that teenage girls commonly share secrets with their “besties” and when they get into arguments suddenly the whole school knows that one of them went behind the bleachers with someone. Don’t pull that crap, because you know very well that empaths are just as capable of betraying trust.
Obviously you don’t have anymore come backs or an original thought in your head. You only think about what society has spoon-fed you to believe and you blindly accept just like some “Christians” believe the Bible that men wrote regardless of what Jesus actually preached and practiced. It’s pathetic and sad, to be honest I think that’s why you quit responding to me because you knew that any person who took a step back and had an unbiased opinion would see that the truth is not what you try to convince people it is.
You are scared to admit that a soiciopath is not as monstrous as people would like to believe. You with sociopaths, racist people in the mid-1900′s with blacks, and “Christians” today with homosexuals, all the same because yall were/are so afraid to admit that just because someone is noticeably different than you are doesn’t mean that they are evil, bad, wrong, a blight on society, whatever the hell small-minded people like yall believe. People with the mentality such as that are truly what holds society back and keeps us from advancing and becoming a more productive and unified people.
Everybody contributes in their own way and a sociopaths contribution when applied is more beneficial to the community as a while than many empaths contributions. You really aren’t worth continuing a conversation with because your emotions on the subject cause such a handicap to you it makes me forget I’m speaking with someone older than 5. Even children quit believing Santa is real when they open their eyes some and realize their parents have been lying to them for so many years. I have to say that I don’t believe you will ever get to that point. Your eyes are sewn shut so tightly to the truth that you will always be a few steps behind.
The fact that you truly believe your own OPINIONS is ridiculous. Sociopaths are capable of a deeper love than “normal” people. We do mold ourselves to become what our partner needs but they will never have to want for affection, time, comfort, or fidelity.
The majority of sociopaths are the most protective,loyal, and stable people you will meet despite our impulsiveness. When you meet a TRUE sociopath and not someone begging for attention claiming they are one then you will come to understand that our lack of emotions is in fact an advantage throughout our lives. I would move Heaven, Earth, and travel through Hell to provide for my loved ones and be the man they need me to be.
Regardless of laws or hurting peoples feelings we do what is more beneficial for us. I will never place my girlfriend above myself but I don’t hesitate to place her or her kids above even my blood relatives. It benefits me to have her in my life because she provides what I crave most.
Unlike many with emotions my wants and desires don’t revolve around physical appearance in my spouse. True, I am amazing in bed and I love the power it gives me over a person, but what I enjoy is lying there having a conversation when it’s over and seeing their raw emotions.
Fact of the matter is I can go into great detail about how wrong you and your beliefs are, but I have more pressing matters to attend to. I had to educate the people who read this page and believe this bullshit you claim as science is a farce.
That is a Sterotype, just like ALL white people are racist. ALL Arabs are terrorists. So on and so forth. Some may very well be exactly as u describe them. I am not. I have had women leave me, and to this day they are some of my good friends. No sex or games just open honesty and communication. They see the real me, have seen my emptiness when others aren’t around and still love and accept me. The women that I love say they are safer when around me because they know I will go to any lengths to protect them.
I may be manipulative and controlling but I never lie and I don’t go out of my way to hurt someone because we have a difference of opinion or they can no longer handle being in a relationship with me. Much of what you have experienced is sad and it’s a shame that you met someone who reinforces that stereotype. Rest assured though that not all of us are like that.
Umm lying to soneone isn’t love. Deceiving someone isn’t love. Your definition of love is different to mine.
Do you think being manipulative and controlling is being loving? That to me is ownership and possession.
Why do people have selective hearing/reading. I said I do NOT lie. I am honest to fault and some people can’t handle that but one thing I will never be is a liar. I do mirror the women I have dated and been several different personalities with several different people at the same time to fit their needs.
I try to manipulate my girlfriend but she sees right through it and I admire that. She calls me out when I say things to try to get my way and stands her ground.
This woman has changed my views on marriage and spending a lifetime with someone. I have found someone who strengthens and empowers me while at the same time she is my one weakness. I have told her what my love for her means and she understands it, yet somehow she is not scared of it. As twisted as my mind is allows me to be objective.
My current year long relationship is the most stable and pure thing that I have ever experienced. The fact that she is married with 3 kids and there’s a 10yr age difference doesn’t affect the fact that we accept each other and our situation and still love each other.
Think what you want, it only sheds light on your ignorance. It’s no different than assuming I’m a terrorist because I’m an Arab. You are truly simple-minded and I pity you. I’ve told her I will be the death of her, I don’t try to hide my insanity with her because there’s no NEED to. Also when she broke up with me in August I may have tried to manipulate her to get back with me, but I would never jeopardize her relationship with her husband. I have her and her children’s social security numbers, bank acct info, email and social networking passwords, etc. Doesn’t mean I would ever use them to hurt her and she knows that.
I like that she trusts me and I have no intention of ruining that. Think what you want, doesn’t change the fact that you don’t know me. The people who do, know who I choose to be. Judge all you want it doesn’t offend me, I get a good laugh out of people’s simplicity and ignorance. It proves that there are more inferior people in this world than yall would like to admit.
(At this point, i am alarmed that he has collected personal details about her children, and tell him so, and remind how this is NOT love)
Think what you want. I know the truth about myself. I have her info because I am good with numbers I didn’t go out of my way to memorize them but I looked at them and I have a photo image of them in my brain. I would never hurt her or jeopardize her marriage or relationship with her children.
You ASSUME I will because you want so badly to believe I am evil. Everything you just described would make for a horrible B horror movie, but it is nowhere close to the truth about me. Bottom line is I will always do what is logical and beneficial to me. I know she loves me (I don’t know WHY). I know that she doesn’t expect anything from me even when my true colors have shown she grounds me. She cooks for me. She pushes me to better myself. There is no reason I would want to hurt her. Even if she walked away from me we both know she can’t STAY away. There would be no point in ruining her life because when she comes back I will be the one having to fix the mess I made. It’s not logical to do what you claim I can’t help but do. Yes I CAN ruin her whole family. WOULD I? Never in a million years. I don’t like when she’s upset. I’m obligated to comfort her and fix the problem, if I’m the cause of that problem then that causes extra problems for me. Why would I do that? Do you even listen to what comes out your mouth? Do you realize how much sense that does NOT make? I love her in my own sick and twisted way.
I enjoy the emotional hold I have on some of the women in my life and I wouldn’t like if they left my life, but with HER I shut down. I wasn’t sure who I was supposed to be anymore. As pathetic as it makes me I am somewhat dependant on her. I gladly do anything she asks or needs of me so I don’t have to go through that again. I went downhill without her in my life. I had money sitting in the bank because I wasn’t eating or going out, I was working insane hours to kill time. When she came back to me she was upset that I had “let myself go”. I’ve never needed to be around someone as badly as I do her and vice versa. She is my addiction. I would kill for her. She will be the death of me or I will be the death of her.
This may not fit your definition of love, but it’s exactly what both she and I have been searching for our whole lives. I have no illusion of being perfect, sane, or normal, but she is everything I am NOT and at the same time compliments the characteristics that I value in myself. I don’t see how this should be a cause for concern if we both know each other and accept that it’s not a “normal” relationship.
I trust her with information that can put a needle in my arm, she trusts that I would never do anything to hurt her.
To me this is a fine arrangement. How can you dispute love just because it doesn’t fit your definition of white gowns and church every sunday? The love, passion and everything else that defines a relationship is there.
Actually I take that back, I won’t fabricate something out of thin air but out of convenience I will shorten things and cut out what I consider irrelevant information. Example: Complete truth is the woman who raised me wasn’t my biological mother so I have 3 older siblings who only share part of my blood but i was raised with them, the other 7 are my half-siblings by my father and i rarely get to see them. That’s too much information to give on a first date so i simply say “I’m one of eleven kids”. I don’t consider things like that a lie though, it’s just a very condensed version of the whole truth.
To John Orona, I just wanted to say thank you. I’ve just recently discovered that I’m a sociopath, and when I tried to research this particular subject, the only thing that I found was the typical stereotype that a sociopath is just a bad person. I’m glad to see that there are other sociopaths like me that don’t fall on that ridiculous stereotype.
I agree. I’m a diagnosed sociopath, and I found this article rather offensive. I have a family that I love dearly, honeslty – dear author, find my “source of supply” with them?
My bet your model will “True-Scot’s” fallacy before you can find an explanation.
I wanted to publish this, as I know that the question is often asked, ‘did the sociopath love me’ I think that especially John’s comments are enlightening about a sociopath mind, how they think.
Is this what love is to you? It isn’t for me. I honestly found the fact that he had memorised her childrens (she is married to someone else) personal details, facebook and email password, social security number, bank account details alarming. Is this love? No, this is storing information, ‘just in case’ for when he needs to reign back in the control, in case she tries to leave him.
This to me, is not love. ( I have only published the sociopaths comments, you can read my responses and others on the page itself. It would have made this post too long)
What are your thoughts?
Copyright datingasociopath.com 2014
Dating a Sociopath 
I love the comment “moral outrage at it’s finest” INDEED. lol
IMHO, you should leave the article as it is. This site is important and is doing its job.
Thank you terry one thing I worry about is bringing down the quality of content on the site as the old posts from 2013 are my book (when I get it there)
I am so glad you’re writing a book! I really wasn’t looking at the date, but just reading away. I had no idea the comments were from so long ago. I only recently have commented on a few things, but have enjoyed reading your site for awhile now. Thanks for such a great resource 🙂
Thanks terry
Reading this entire post chilled me to the bone. I read it all with sick facination. Control. Power over another person. Loss. Threats. Manipulation. Anger. Disdain. Domination. These are not healthy things. It’s not even a matter of what people consider “good” or “bad” or how they define “love”. When anyone is making unhealthy decisions and doing unhealthy things, it take a toll on their life, physically and mentally.
Just the words used by that man filled me with fear, just like I feared my sociopath. I felt a lot of the same things with my ex. I was a strong, independent person when i met him. The manipulation, steady decline of decent behavior or kindness on his part and constant need to be the one in control all the time wore a lot of me away. I almost fell apart. I contemplated suicide and he LOVED that. He WANTED me to be completely destroyed. If I even PRETENDED to be happy or fine, that made him angry too.
HOW IS THIS LOVE?
I find it hard to believe that she is in this relationship and is a healthy, happy, mentally stable person who can function properly. He got her here by being who and what he is. He’d “do anything for her” because he wants to keep her right where she is. And “do anything for her” is probably not the correct verbage he should use. “do anything TO her” more like it.
I doubt, as he says, she’s able to call him on his manipulation and not allow him to game her to get what he wants. SHE WOULDN’T STILL BE THERE IF HE WASN’T ABLE TO BE IN CONTROL. He would never allow that. That’s the whole game changer. This guy admits it, and then refuses to admit it.
All I could see in his description of that relationship was fear and loss. Not that he is afraid of anything. “She’ll be the death of me or I’ll be the death of her” doesn’t sound like he’s fine with her walking away if that’s what she really wants. Imagine if she REALLY cut things off with him? Went NC? And kept with it?
When I first tried to step away from my ex, he was SO angry. He would follow me and stare at me like he wanted to kill me. It wasn’t like he ever really got NICE again, I just kept going back because i was so hooked and under his manipulation. Eventually though, we went through so many break ups, and I got so out of my mind, I finally became unattractive enough to him that he let me go for good and he moved on to his next target. Although he still checks in and lets me know that if the urge strikes him, he’ll be more than happy to try to destroy my entire life for kicks.
HOW IS THIS LOVE?
It isn’t love. They are jealous of your happiness.
Hey,
I’m not going to bash on anything you wrote.
(The thing with the informations was indeed arlarming)
But I do feel like us sociopaths are treated like monsters in media.
I personally feel a thing, I’m not sure it can be considered ‘love’, but it’s a strong feeling of wanting to protect someone.
I would never put someone elses wellbeing above mine, but that emotion comes damn close to it.
I have manipulated my partners often, but there allready had to be something interesting in their personallity for me to get invested in them in the first place. And whatever this something may be I wouldn’t want to change that.
But although I manipulate, if a girlfriend broke up with me, I never held a grudge against them. (I know my problems)
I could never hurt somone I “loved”, but I could, without feeling any guilt, hurt (or kill) FOR my “loved one” as long as I have the time to prepare and make sure I won’t get caught.
I only ever had ~2 relationships, so maybe the things I wrote are incomplete in some way or another. But what I wanted to make clear is:
Whatever the Internet says about us, it doesn’t mean every sociopath.
And if I feel that feeling I would call love, the only way I’d ever hurt the person it’s directed at. Is in self defense. And even then, I’d probably still try to be as little harmful as possible. (even if said person were to hate or trying to kill me) I actually feel a weak version of that feeling towards “broken” girls, even if I don’t know them. That may sound worse than it is. It just means I have the slight urge to protect girls who have interesting cirtumstances or backstories, nothing more.
Even if the thought has crossed my mind a few times, I’d never try to CREATE those cirtumstances.
Basicly: Some sociopaths can feel love (or atleast they think they can), it’s just different from how normal people feel it.
I hope I was able to get my points across. 🙂
Lg imagine_wings
Ps sorry for my horrible english since it’s not my first language…
Your response, as a sociopath, explains quite well WHY media, and everyone that has encountered a sociopath, psychopath and narcissist treats you and them like monsters. Your “feeling” doesn’t add up to what everyone else, who are empaths, call love. Although your “intention” may not be to hurt, it’s your very unobstructed nature to do that to someone you say you love who is an empath. Its what you do, because that’s all you know TO do. You say you would go as far as to “kill” for love, but I suspect what you really mean is you’d kill to protect what you know is your supply from being taken away from you. Anyone that poses a threat to what you call love,(supply, and your sustainable interest to your ego) needs to be removed. That’s not protecting, that’s being selfish because the interest is to your own benefit. That’s not love as you think it is in the normal world. What you call being “different” is deranged, self inflating, self beneficial, self satisfying, all about self. That so-called “protection” is just the grandiose act used to make yourself look like the knight in shining armour, but let the damsel in distress mock you or discard you, I bet those “feelings” you have to protect her will disappear like a wisp of air. My point is, put your thoughts discussed here in REAL WORLD EMPATHETIC perspective, and you’ll see how nothing you say makes sense, in a human empathetic sense. The real human and the majority of the world love each other, extend themselves without reward to each other to love and be kind to each other. That what real love does. What you call love, is really ego, and ego is not real
I LOVE this comment. Bravo!!!
Thank you sweetie:) I also forgot to add on that to “kill for love” is an oxymoron. We don’t KILL to attain love or to sustain love. Love just is or isn’t. No killing necessary. Killing denotes anger, anger is not love. Cluster B people(narcs, sociopaths and psychopaths) use that term KILL as a heightened action word to convey their “true identity” or “true emotional state” because that’s exactly what they “feel” when they feel threatened or as this “individual” calls love and/or “protecting his supply”. They use the word “kill” to describe what they think empaths would accept as a bonafide genuine emotional response to protecting someone, as if in danger or immediate harm. Its ridiculous! No one, at least no normal person, would “feel” the need to kill for anyone but a person in immediate threatening danger. A person that plans out to “kill” is a calculated person, and that’s considered murder. And to do so, without “feeling guilty” is psycho at best, least and everything in between. Its sick, but, I digress to his/her response. I do find sociopaths and their kin to be legends in their own mind
Lol, yes they are ‘legends in their own minds’ This is so spot on, I almost spat my tea out laughing…. what are you doing now? You sound like you are in VERY good form!! I appreciate your comments you are right there. It still saddens me, how many people are still being conned and duped by these psychological nut jobs. Thousands of people still visit this site daily. Over 1.2 million hits so far in 2017. How are you? Are you doing as well as you sound?
I’m doing ok:) Thanks to you! I’ve been on this forum for awhile, on and off since 2012-13. At that time was the final discard of many before. It was this forum and many others that I feel supported me at times I thought I would lose my mind. Through here, I found the hard core answers to all my cognitive dissonance, and began the road to recovering myself back in full force and beyond:) I appreciate you and this blog more than you’ll ever understand. I didn’t quite recover altogether financially but even in that I’m well on my way. I plan on joining the true legion of narc busters and creating my own youtube channel very soon. I find there are so many of us survivors out here now, more than ever since I realized what I was dealing with in 2006 and forward. The word is spreading and awareness is coming because of the efforts made by you and others. I don’t know if you are aware but there is supposed to be a Narc Awareness conference being developed in New York City at the Jacob Javitz center in 2018. Lots of bloggers and vloggers are signing/joining up to be onboard. Exposure of these psychologically challenged people is on the horizon of being the people and signs to look out for. Nowhere to run narcs, nowhere to hide, narc busters are coming:)
And despite the election challenges experienced here in the States during the democratic primary and subsequent election, the day Bernie Sanders lost was the day I declared to people on my facebook page, “You wanna know what it’s like to see a narc and sociopath fight? Watch what happens from this day forward” It was that day that people were looking at the obvious, and not the covert pantsuit with the same but overlooked but obvious characteristics. Both one in the same except one is not a politician, and the other “kills” when it doesn’t get its way unless you put the lotion in the basket. And today, the fighting is still going on. Narcs hate to lose
Thank you for your kind comments Bluegal. It is appreciated 🙂
I did hear about the Narc Awareness convention and was asked if I wanted to be a speaker, but 1. It is too far away 2. My work is about Socio/Psychopathy. I don’t write about Narcissim. They are two very different animals, I keep it focused. Simply because a victim of a socio/psychopath has been through what is hidden and the equivalent of a hell that can be almost impossible to fathom. That is what I want to continue with.
Let me know when you start vlogging, would be interested to see it. Again, it is good to hear you in such good form and happy.
I thank you for your honest opinion, (this is the Internet so I expected something like “Fuck you! All Sociopaths should die!”)
Athough I can’t agree to all of your statements, in some regards you might be right.
I’m not normal and never will be, BUT that doesn’t automaticly make me a monster.
There are horrible people out there, some of them are Sociopaths others aren’t.
And I said that I was not sure about calling that feeling love, mainly because I don’t know, and never will be able to know, what normal people feel.
The thing about egoism and selfishness: I’m not ging to defend myself against that. Most of my actions are driven by selfish reasons. But that feeling (I won’t call it love, in order not to offend anyone) isn’t, or atleast I couldn’t tell what I would be gaining from it.
And as wierd as it sounds, if my girlfriend was happier without me, I would relunctantly let her go without holding any grudges. And the feeling towards her will slowly fade, but never completely.
The more I think about it, the more your theory with making myself appear as a knight in shining armor, gains ground. Although I don’t do it conciosly that very well could be the case.
And as I said there are horrible people out there, but not every Sociopath is one of them. I understand, that people who had bad experience with them can’t trust any Sociopath, and want to blame all the characterflaws on that illness (because that’s what Sociopathism is)
I don’t know what you have been through, but I doubt it has been pretty.
I know my deficits as a human, for example my lack of guilt, but they don’t make me a monster.
I don’t mind being feared, because everyone is free to mistrust anyone they want, I just hope you understand not everyone of us is harmful to EVERYone. Just to some people and just under certain circumstances.
I don’t know if you understand the point I’m trying to get across.
Even if Sociopaths can’t feel love, some of us THINK they can feel it or something similar.
Whatever, again I apologize for my writing since english isn’t my first language.
I hope to have brought some clarity intim thus conversation.
Lg: imagine_wings
Difference between a Narc and a psycho…. a narc would respond with ego. A psycho responds with charisma and their brain.
I would say that by default, Sociopaths cannot help but cause upset, and destruction to others lives. People around them are either accomplices, or victims. Often those who are accomplices will later be victims (although not always).
I couldn’t read through this whole post. Too painful. J have been with a sociopath for the past 8 years. The last three and a half we have been married. He is now divorcing me. Over the course of our relationship he manipulated me to get his way, manipulated me away from my family so I had no support, lied to me all day every day, cheated on me multiple times, used my (diagnosed) generalized anxiety disorder against me to also get his way. These are all things that he told me he did when he told me he was leaving me. I didn’t believe him and part of me still doesn’t. He said that he never loved me. He told me that he is incapable of love. In fact he said that his leaving me is the most love and caring that he has ever shown. He is leaving me because this relationship is not fair to me and he said that I’m too good of a person not to be loved. So no. I do not believe sociopaths can love. I also don’t know if I will ever be able to trust anyone enough to love or be loved now because of this.
I am so sorry you are hurting. 8 years is a long time. They really do suck. Now the best part is that you will be free from abuse. You will be able to make your own life decisions without manipulation. Your life will start to improve. Slowly. It does take time. But silence is far better than living every day with abuse. He also sounds narcissistic. I wonder if he has met someone else. Not told you yet.
@ohn 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😂😂😂 (clapping and laughter emojis)
I’m not even done reading this article and all of its comments, but I had to respond to ohn’s part of it right away.
Why is no one mentioning how pointless it is to argue about feeling love? Love is abstract. Love is felt different by every single person, no matter what their label. This whole subject is mute.
Are you still around?
While it is true that love is felt differently depending on the relationship that you are with, who you are with. Common interests, bond, sometimes one loves more than the other. But love isn’t felt different by every single person. Love is love. To be in love feels the same.