I only found this website less than 24 hours ago and I’ve been devouring the material like a maniac. I never fully suspected my ex of being an actual SP, just having SP or narc tendencies. After all, I haven’t seen her in almost a year now (though there has been contact), so it’s easy to forget how things really played out.
I looked at the article about the stages a victim goes through when grieving a relationship with a sociopath, and it was scarily accurate of what I’m going through. My understanding of who this person is is so distorted. I yo-yo between rational and emotional, and I don’t know why my brain is trying to understand things rather than just move on. Perhaps it is because everything we’ve ever learned and experienced in life comes into question, and we suffer from some cognitive dissonance. That’s my best understanding and explanation as to why we struggle to move on from a sociopath.
When my symptoms looked too familiar for comfort, I started to look more into the ways sociopaths work and date, and it all sounded too disturbingly familiar. Scarily so. Some things don’t sound like her but many things are just far too true to be coincidence. I think she’s a low-functioning sociopath and possibly doesn’t actually realise that she operates differently to everyone else. She believes I simply gave up on our relationship because I have a skewed understanding of how relationships work. She even once suggested that I probably have a mental illness.
Then, the more I read on here, the more memories flood back. Again, I’m still doubtful if she actually is a SP but perhaps it’s best to err on the side of caution.
I remember early in the relationship we actually talked about her now-estranged, sociopathic mother and the horrible upbringing she suffered. She taught me how to spot a psychopath from what she read in a Jon Ronson book in an “attempt to get an insight into her mother.” I can’t remember what [she said] the psychopath red flags were but I remember saying “Woah, maybe I’m a psychopath” to which she replied “the end of the test says if you’ve read this checklist and starting to worry you’re a sociopath, you’re probably not one.” We both laughed, agreed that neither of us were psychopaths and moved on.
If she’s not a SP, this is just a crazy coincidence. If she is, this is probably a calculated conversation she has with every new boyfriend…
*shudder*
But I still love the illusion. I miss the idea of her. She was perfect. She was my soulmate. If she’s not an SP, she’s my dream girl 😆
Hi Val, I’m ok. This one is anything but boring. I will now listen to you all when you tell me how they will pursue you when you are trying to move on!! I’ve never seen this from him. He desperately was trying to prevent me from leaving his life…. mind you I haven seen him since Christmas Day!! Omg the apologies, the ” I love yous ” the promises ( which I know won’t be kept). I was so upset Friday night, he asked me why I was crying… I tried to tell him between crying hysterically that he hurts me, I don’t deserve it. I had to break down exactly what he does that hurts me. He tried to explain that he’s a police officer and can’t always return my texts within hours (bs!!!). I tried to explain that it’s clear that he doesn’t want me and it’s best for the both of us that we end this for good. Well, as you know the sociopath is going to get what he wants!!! More promises to spend more time with me, to reply to my messages. It’s too late and I know it won’t last. He wore me down and stayed the night…. usually he would have something to do the next morning and have to leave. This time he insisted on taking me to breakfast. I figured if I gave him his fix he would be good and I’ll have a reprieve. He dragged breakfast out for 2.5 hours, asked me what my plans were for the day, then told me his. When he dropped me off I say goodbye… he said “I’ll see you later”. I heard from him about 6pm asking how my day was going. Thank God he was still enjoying himself with out of state relatives ( or so he said) and did not try to come back over. As much as I wanted that pursuit to be about how much he loves and wants me, I know it was about his ego and making sure his possession didn’t go anywhere. Until that night I’ve never felt like he viewed me as a possession. Little by little I’m seeing in him all the things that others have mentioned here. I still love him but I have to keep trying to get away!!! I kept telling him that I have to move on with my life without him. It doesn’t get why!!! Smh!!!
Glad you’re okay but yes, it was about his ego and now that you’ve supplied him, he is likely to disappear again – if not this week, then next. Read Sam Vaknin’s stuff again.
I never would’ve imagined either that mine goes out of his way to pursue me after so much disinterest in saving our relationship, so many times. Once they lose their “supply” they get desperate and are trying to get it back for whatever reason.
It’s so weird.
I tried to explain to mine how he hurt me, why I was crying so much and how I feel when he does certain things (like leaving me waiting without apologies). He claims he understands and to do it all better, but I end up crying and explaining something again. They just listen because that’s what they think we want. Anything to get you back in the cycle. At least mine seems to be working that way.
And yes I got a lot of excuses from him too why he couldn’t do certain things, but funny enough he always told me I’m full of excuses 😝
How do i let go of a man who i love after taking full advantage of distroying my life not only jobs but my family and friends and took me away to control me far away from my home ..
Hi maureen. Thank you for writing. It takes time. A lot of time. First you have to undo the brainwashing and mind control that they have done to you. Then build a network you trust. Even if that is only one person. Stay with the present it is all you have. Right now. Do things that make you happy. Give yourself time to heal. Know that the state of your life is not a reflection of you as a person. Accept that some things might never be the same. As much as you can reach out and reach back to what you were doing and where you were before you were targeted. Who were people in your life who loved you and you could trust? Do you have one old friend or family member you can reach out to to help you? Just one person you know would be on your side? Next you need to build hope and opportunities. Write yourself a support plan. I am going to try to write a post about this later today. This will help you to set some small managable goals for you. Know that you can do this. You can heal and recover. It just takes time.
Ugh I am having a really hard time today. I just wrote a 3 page letter to the (ex) wife. He doesn’t know that I know who she is and that we know people in common. Then I thought it better that I write to him and tell him that I am still in turmoil about the lying, the deception and the stalking, and that I am trying to keep myself from writing to his (ex)wife. I don’t know how he will react but he’s always been quite calm and I should be able to explain to him what he’s done. It’s not about love or wanting him back or anything like that. It’s that I don’t take kindly to someone lying to me and therefore taking away my free will and ability to make my own decisions based on full information. He has also not only made it impossible for me to go on the dating site, he has ruined a 40 year connection to my and my son’s old school, because I cannot go to events etc without worrying that I’ll run into him. I don’t know what to do…Of course if I write to him I will be breaking NC, but I don’t see another way. I just think that he and I have got to have a conversation about this if he doesn’t want me to blow up his life because I am about to blow.
Hi Valerie, I am surprised that he doesn’t know who you know in common with her. They usually make it their business to know EVERYTHING. I recall mine hacking into his new persons account, and looking at my social media to see what mutual friends we had.
It sounds as if you are struggling with what has happened to you. Also the injustice too, that he can treat you this way, lie and then move on like nothing has happened. I hear your pain.
I am not going to tell you to move on, get over it. I know it takes time, and it takes considerable healing. I would not recommend sending him your letter. I would however strongly recommend, writing the letter, and write it again and again and again. You have a need to get your feelings out. Don’t contact he will only use this for triangulation purposes. To make you out to be the crazy one (see how crazy she is, and how much I went through, she still cannnot leave me alone, I am great)….
This articles writes how to get your feelings out, without breaking no contact.
Be strong. Write it but don’t send it. See how you feel about it tomorrow, but know that your words will fall on deaf ears. He won’t regret or feel remorse for anything he has done. It will empower him – it’s one of the things he can feel. You won’t get what you want out of it, and he’ll get exactly what he needs. Wait a day, reassess. You will hopefully feel different tomorrow.
I’ve been waiting and reassessing for months now and I know the whole NC thing and what it is supposed to do, etc. So many times I have come so close to doing this. I think had he not stalked me I would have let it go but because he did, it convinced me even more that I have an obligation to other people to shine a light on this whole thing. We did not use condoms, for one thing (long story but at one point he actually got angry at me about my insistence). That means he is probably not using them with other people. That means if he is sleeping with his wife, he is passing on to her whatever he might have picked up from someone else (nothing from me – I got checked). These are people who are very long term prominent members of what is a very small community. It was my community too, until he ruined it. I warned him long ago that this might happen. He knew about that connection but because he tried to hide from me who he was, he never would guess in a million years that I know who his ex is or how to get in touch with her.
But that’s not really the point anyway. I’m not going to blackmail him. I just think he needs to know that he messed with the wrong person both because of my way of operating in the world and because of my position in the community, both of which I was quite transparent about.
He won’t even let it get to the point where you can blackmail him. He’ll preemptively strike so that you can’t, or if you do your good name will already be tainted.
You have your community. He can take that away without hesitation or remorse. You could be left with even less.
Hang in there. These feelings will pass.
As positiva said, write it out a bajillion times if you have to, but don’t let your emotions dictate your behaviour. That can be our shortcoming, you and I. It’s why we are where we are. It also can be why we will experience some amazing things in life that people like him never will. I actually feel kinda sorry for him (and my ex-gf) in a way. They’re living the only way they know how, and I guess they have a right to live whatever they consider a meaningful and “happy” life? I guess? Maybe? It sucks that it’s to our detriment.
The point is, our feelings can get us into a lot of trouble, and I’m worried you could be setting yourself up for more.
Hey Val…. I know how you feel. You’re angry and feel wronged. Been there!! And you feel the need to unload in him… been there too. If it will make you feel better then do it. As someone stated he may not care or reply but if you just want to unload in him then do that. I can sense you are in turmoil, I know that feeling exactly!! You will get there. Even with all that happened over the weekend I am still able to come back to my peace. It took a lot for me to get here…. you will eventually get here too!!
Hey Cindy, Thanks. Glad you are back to a peaceful place after all that turmoil. I had a really good weekend but woke up this morning in turmoil. Who knows why. And yes I should be able to unload on him. I’ve done it before!
Maybe all of these assholes need to be exposed rather than ignored. Personally, I do not care if it feeds his ego or empowers him. He is just a little boy underneath it all.
My concern for you Valerie is that you don’t know what he’s capable of in retaliation. Seriously.
Think of the worst-case scenario. The worst possible outcome.
That’s not what will happen. What could possibly happen is actually much worse than you can imagine, because you are an empathetic soul.
These people will stop at nothing if they need to be vengeful because they just simply don’t care.
We can prepare ourselves and say “well if they do this, I’ll be prepared for it, if they do that I’ll be prepared for it” – the action they will take will be the one you’re not prepared for, the one you didn’t even consider because it’s just not in your nature.
He’s a little boy underneath, maybe, but do not underestimate what he can be and what he can do.
He shouldn’t underestimate me either. I am perfectly capable of wreaking my own havoc. I didn’t do anything deceptive and I don’t have a reputation to lose. He does.
Omg…. you sound so much like me when I first joined this group!! I’m not a passive or weak woman either. As much havoc as he wreaked on me emotionally, I’ve wreaked 10 times over on him financially and mentally. Believe me when I tell you I got revenge. I guess I’m lucky because my sociopath isn’t violent nor is he really vindictive. His only form of ” punishment” is to ignore me or withhold sex. It didn’t matter what I did, and I’ve done some crazy stuff to him: put him on a gay dating website, blackmailed into paying me double what he owed me, made him lose out on a job offer, contacted his then wife, etc. Did he get pissed? Yes… even threatened to never have anything to do with me only to be back a few weeks later. I don’t recommend that you do any of what I’ve done… I don’t know what kind of person you’re dealing with. I’m praying that you can get through this without drama.
I wouldn’t do all that, though I’d like to! Anyway, you crack me up. Keep up the good work!
Plus I think there is a feminist argument to be made. Do we just let men go around fucking random women without condoms? Do we just let them deceive us? These are honest questions. Maybe the whole NC thing is the wrong way to go about it.
We used condoms the first time and that was it. They make you feel like you’re the only one and so close to them. After I spoke with the wife and found out that he was a serial cheater I got tested for EVERYTHING as well. Luckily everything came back negative!! Thank God!! Any subsequent sex has been with condoms. Although he questions why .
Haha. What is it with these people and condoms?? But really, I’m not going to try to blackmail him, I’m not going to contact his ex, I am simply going to tell him that he’d better figure out a way out of this because I am on edge and about to blow it all up. I’ve burned many a bridge in my life. He can’t revenge porn me or anything because it’s illegal and I have my own pictures and emails. Maybe he wants those all over the internet too? Not going to happen.
Now you’re being paranoid. It’s okay – I do the same. You think this is my real name? No. I’m terrified that if my ex found out that I know she’s a sociopath, she’ll see it as a threat and come back to destroy what little I have left. It’s been 3 months since she blocked me, she has a new victim, I think I’m safe.
Still, it doesn’t matter what advice people give, at the end of the day you’re going to do whatever the hell you went. That’s okay. When the dust settles you’ll see I’m not your enemy. But by then I might be fleeing the country from my sociopathic ex 😉
And for all I know, he is not a sociopath. But even if he is, they crash all the time. My last one ended up in jail in Mexico (long time ago and nothing to do with me). Of course I had to bail him out and god knows what happened to him in there but it took two years and by the end I was so done with it and him.
Write a list of reasons to believe he is a sociopath and revisit it. I often wonder the same about my ex. I think it’s because we can’t comprehend such behaviour. It makes us physically uncomfortable, so sometimes our minds rely on what we understand and what we know – empaths. So we remember them as an empathetic person, and we start to feel guilty that we didn’t “make it work” and that maybe they were just misunderstood. Maybe everything was our fault.
Go back to the list. Check the facts. Your feelings betray you, don’t trust them.
I was so stunned when I found out that my guy was a sociopath I couldn’t go to work the next day!! My mind couldn’t handle that I had been with something like that!!
I was kidding and we are probably in different countries anyway. I am in the UK. Mine would probably laugh if I told him he was a sociopath. But that’s not what I’m going to say. I’m going to say that he has no right to take away another human being’s free will and ability to make a fully informed decision. He did that to me and he’s doing it to other people. I’m about to blow. He needs to figure out the next step. That is all. He probably will not respond but I will know that he’s got the message and he won’t know what I will do next just as I won’t know what he will do next. But as I said, not much he can do to me. The laws about stalking and harassment are pretty draconian here.
The condom thing. So weird. I once said to him you’re a financier and you don’t have condoms?? He broke with reality on another occasion and got angry at me because I insisted. It wasn’t about intimacy and trust. It was about his masculinity. This was before I knew he was married. Imagine not using condoms and going back to your partner of decades with whom you have 3 daughters. I just can’t get beyond that…Look, I don’t know that they are back together. I don’t think they are. But again that’s not the point. The point is as a feminist I think I have an obligation to call out this sort of behavior. I’m just giving him a chance and a warning.
Thank you all for sharing your comments. I am dealing with a difficult aftermath of a sociopath. Can anyone please tell me how i can post my story on this website? I am a bit confused on how to do so thank you.
Yes but I can smear campaign him too, and worse because he is married and I am not. Worse because his kids and wife (or ex or whatever – they don’t live together but he said they were divorced and they’re not) share his last name and mine do not. Worse because I have nude pictures of him and he doesn’t have nude pictures of me.
Anyway Stephen, I just read your story. Sorry I missed it earlier. I didn’t realize there were new people around. Thanks for jumping in and commenting. I have my doubts because I haven’t seen him since I landed on covert cerebral narcissist, but when I found Sam Vaknin’s work I discovered that he ticks every single box from hoovering to triangulation to using sex as a punishment and addicted to internet porn. It’s all there. Scarily so. So yes it completely horrified me – not just because of what I thought I knew about him but also because of what I wanted when I met him (a fling). I went through something like this before – 18 years ago.
Happened to me with the first one. I got pregnant. I then had a miscarriage because a doctor thought I had an intestinal infection and gave me antibiotics that killed the fetus.
That sounds like it was a tough experience Valerie, you have been through a lot 😦
I actually think it’s a control thing – it’s abusive to resist using a condom when the partner wants to. I think I’ll tell him that I’ll let it go when I have proof that he is seeing a psychiatrist.
His wife already knows him. He has been doing to her exactly what he has been doing to you (and countless others) for far longer than you think. You should befriend her. Be KIND to her! She is the REAL victim.
Hi Kate, Thanks for your comments but this is old now! We ended the relationship last summer. After 6 months of no contact, he wanted to rekindle things this past January. I told him I was not interested and did not want to be in contact as long as he is married. He ignored my wishes and seemed to want a friendship, so I tried to be friends. That lasted a few weeks until I mildly teased him about his attention-seeking behavior. Then I got a HUGE dose of the silent treatment. I went ballistic because there I was, trying to be friends, being supportive about some transitions he is going through, again trying to give him what I thought he wanted, and he spent weeks trying to get me where he wanted me, so he could flip the script and manipulate me again. I told him he is a sociopath. Asked him if he tortured small animals and lit fires as a kid, said that in another life he could have been a serial killer, etc. But of course it was more fuel. Sigh. I deleted his last email (just two days ago) without reading it. I like the unmasked guy – sweet, vulnerable, clumsy. But the mask goes on and it’s like I am dealing with a robot. He is moving to another country, thank God. If I can fend him off for the next few months it will all be over.
I know he does the same to his wife – I am sort of his ‘alt-wife,’ I see now. But I cannot befriend her because that would be a huge deception. I would have to tell her and I cannot be the one to do that. I’ve come close on many occasions but in the end I can’t. In any case, I don’t see her as a victim. I see her as an enabler. I’m angry at her for allowing this. Maybe that will get me some flack on this board but if I can figure this out in two years of very intermittent contact, she is either really dumb or is getting what she wants out of it, which is a nice lifestyle, not having to work, and something that looks on the surface like a ‘normal’ family life. Maybe she’s abused, but so was I!!
My narc knows that I wrote her a letter that I did not mail but even that has not stopped him. I can only think that he wants me to tell her, he wants me to want him to leave her (which I don’t), all because he wants the chaos and drama and tears that this would provoke. I refuse to give that to him.
I did all that and more over a year ago. I think that stuff kinda turns him on. That’s when I really knew he was crazy!!! The gay dating site ( with pics and I had messaged a guy and set up a date) pissed him off royally but 3 weeks later he was asking to see me. Smh!!
LOL! Sorry but the whole thing is just so absurd. And here I am spending all this time on it. But at least I don’t have to work today. Might as well deal with HIM.
Thank you and thanks so much for your advice. He is trying to punish me but I won’t go back…EVER!😊
Me too, same here, it felt good to type my story and see it for a short while on here. I think my story was probably too long plus it was interlaced, woven with a story of a good decent man as well as various sociopath types i’d met on my journey, and a recent very short encounter with what sounds like a covert narc, very cunning this one but I think he’ll leave me alone now as hes frightened his wife will find him out so he smeared me to his wife as an evil flirting, jealous needy woman. I’m incidentally grieving, going through bereavement too. Blessings, divine love and light healing to all, take care
Most of my friends only understand the stalker bit. Sorry to be taking up so much of this board today and thank you all for being here. In the end, I did nothing. I think I’m stressed about other things and am distracting myself. It would be more helpful to be consumed with things that I need to do. Tomorrow will be a better day!
Please don’t apologize… this is what we’re all here for… to support and get support and understanding. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you!! It will get better.
I’m actually struggling with a moral dilemma here. Ironically, it’s in defense of sociopaths, though they’d never understand. Perhaps by saying this I’m just giving them more information to mimic and throw off the scent.
But I do feel for sociopaths. They didn’t choose to be this way, and sometimes it’s a result of abuse during their formative years. They never learned love and affection and instead learned (from perhaps a psychopathic parent, as was the case with my ex) that control and manipulation was the norm for relationships. These would be what I’ve heard of as ‘Type 2’, the charming and charismatic, as opposed to the brash grandiose (Donald Trump, for example) and directly destructive. My ex possibly doesn’t know how madness-inducing her behavior is. She’s in her early 20s.
Perhaps some won’t even realise they’re sociopaths until much later in life, all the while believing they keep attracting bad luck or crazy people, wondering why their relationships aren’t working out – pushing away friends and exes thinking “it’s for the best that I don’t have this toxic person in my life”, when we see that as being discarded.
But the world is terrifying enough as it is without having to go through it without feeling any sense of connection or belonging with other humans. Without experiencing the love of a friend or a partner – that warm safe haven. Though I guess this doesn’t bother her, and she probably pities me for having my progress in life retarded by my emotions.
But I’d almost like to extend a hand to her. I know this world is strange and difficult. I know you must feel alone and often misunderstood. I know you get demonized by the masses – called vampires and monsters – and that must be awful to always be on edge and having to hide yourself, sometimes not even understanding what’s going on within your own world. To be fair, we have to demonise you – it’s our way of surviving the trauma you cause. It’s our survival mechanism just as much as your survival mechanism is to destroy us and watch us self-destruct and implode before your eyes, hardly batting an eyelid at the sight.
For so many reasons, I wish you didn’t exist. However, there are certain people in the world who wish certain types of people exist, and we condemn them for their prejudice. (#notallsociopaths, right?i wish). Still, I can learn from you, and I have chosen to do so (though the path has been excruciating and expensive on all fronts). You are here in this world and I guess you have just as much right to be here as me, and a right to be happy – whatever it is that you call being ‘happy.’ It just really sucks that your happiness is often linked to someone else’s misery.
So I hope my ex has a moment of self-reflection someday, and decides she wants some stability. Though I doubt that’s possible. I still believe that she’s low-functioning and deep down really wants what she’s “supposed” to have, as dictated by society. A long-term, loving relationship.
In the meantime, I’m so tempted to extend a hand and say to her: I know this world is scary, and you’ll be chased from town to town for the rest of your life for being the demon that you are. But feel free to drift in and out of my life from time to time, when you need validation, to feel wanted and needed, to feel safe. I have empathy to spare. Suck on my soul a while, little vampire. You’re still finding your way, and I truly feel for you, though you will probably never speak to me again.
Think about it, when we ask “what’s it like being a sociopath and are they self-aware?” …. well, an unaware sociopath wouldn’t answer those questions would they – believing they’re a regular human being.
So how can we say definitively that they don’t exist? Or what life might be like for the confused sociopath who is yet to discover their true nature?
I can find it in my heart to see the humanity in mine too, and I’ve also learned from him. The other day I had a revelation that I had experienced another dimension of being and it gave me a weirdly euphoric high ;-). I have been through something that most people have not. We all have. That’s why we’re in this club. Part of me can definitely appreciate it.
Narcs have an authentic self and a false one. I even told mine once – way before I was aware of all of this – that he seemed like two different people – that he had a facade. I was really puzzled. I liked the authentic self much more than the false one, but I got more and more of the false one. I don’t know whether he is self-aware or not but if you offer a hand, say you’ll be there, pierce the armor, give them love and affection, they will discard you anyway. And let me add that they will suck it all up while doing so. What I thought was closeness was simply more supply for him. All the while he would tell me how perceptive I was, and I am.
Towards the end, when I was getting warmer and began to suspect everything from Asperger’s to multiple personality disorder to an internet porn addiction, though I didn’t say anything directly, mine had a clear break with reality, which he acknowledged, along with his first and only narc rage (scared me). He then pushed me away and moved on. He had revealed too much. They don’t want to be self-aware because most of them are actually quite content, as long as their false self remains intact.
But then mine is a very high functioning financier (classic – he couldn’t do what he does without being a psychopath) and middle-aged. He’s had a long-term stable relationship – decades, 3 kids. He’s a very responsible father. That’s one of the reasons I thought he was “safe.” Haha. I am more unstable that way than he is yet he is way more insane than I am. Yours might be quite capable of finding a long-term stable relationship, but that’s what’s called “secondary supply,” at least in narc speak.
Have you come across Sam Vaknin (Malignant Self Love)? I suspect you would find him quite fascinating even if his work doesn’t explain your ex 100%. I recommend him to everyone because when I found him, it all suddenly fell into place – made perfect sense. It’s all on the internet.
I know but don’t stop being who you are because some disordered people can’t appreciate it. I’m a very kind, loving and compassionate person myself, I won’t change who I am… I’ll just be careful in the future to who I give all that to.
Just realising I’m the lethal combination of overthinking and overanalyzing everything, and trusting my heart over my head. Descending into madness as I try to make sense of everything.
I think this is what it would feel like to be unplugged from The Matrix. Seeing a gritty reality I was completely unaware of, and majority of the population can’t comprehend what I’ve experienced, and lucky for them, they never will.
I kind of value that unplugged from the Matrix experience. I feel that it helps me to understand the world more clearly. But that’s just me. Hope you are doing better.
I and many other women have been extreme abuse victims to one of the worst kind of people possible: A A highly trained and educated Psychologist who is clearly a sociopath. Myself and many other of his victims are speaking out about the harrowing experiences with this man.
Before anyone panics: I have spoken to my attorney and I know my rights regarding mentioning the abuser’s name. Since it is TRUTHFUL it is legal to post anywhere on the internet or tell anyone. The most harrowing abuse one can receive is by a Psychologist as I and many others who have been victimized by Dr. Gary Dumais can attest to. And there are many of us and we have spoken together about the horrors that this man has done to us.
Dr. Gary Dumais has a very long history of ALL forms of abuse on the women he has preyed on. And by far the Emotional and Psychological Abuse was the most cruel. Although he has hit me and others (and raped others), by far the emotional and psychological abuse was the worst since he knew exactly what to do. Two of his other victims agreed with me on that fully too. Dr. Gary Dumais LOVES to verbally emotionally,psychically, sexually and psychologically abuse women.As a huge misogynist and vicious sadist, he genuinely
enjoys dishing out the abuse and gets off on it sexually and mentally. I could see the look in his eyes!
And being a trained psychologist, he is very very,very good at the psychological abuse.
Yes, that is how he uses his training and psychology education. To abuse and hurt people because he gets off on it. Many of us even witnessed him abuse his now deceased cat.
Like most sociopaths, Dumais wears a good fake mask in the beginning.He seems normal, professional, decent and even charming. Like Ted Bundy did.
Do not be fooled by that facade. He uses his psychological training and education to fabricate that facade which eventually wears off.
And like other sociopaths, he has no moral compass and is never held accountable for his terrible actions or even acknowledges them. No remorse at all.
He is a pathological liar and master manipulator. Dumais would systematically break me down (and other his other victims) with constant abuse beating me into a depression and then tell me that ” I needed him” and that “he would fix me” and that I “needed his help and expertise”.
He would exploit very painful parts of our pasts and use it to his advantage and turn it against us. He would make us think we deserved the abuse. The insults, the berating, the degradation, the humiliation-It was OUR fault! Always “Blame the Victim” with Dumais. It was always our fault.We always deserved it.
Dumais knew I occasionally suffered from depression and he would intentionally exacerbate it by abusing me more, telling me I was useless, worthless etc and then would tell me that I should kill myself.
And yes, this is coming from someone who works in the mental health industry!
His raging alcoholism is frightening. He’d go through 21 bottles of red wine a week, and a whole bottle of Patron and a handle of Jack a week. He can’t go three days without drinking.
His porn addiction is unhealthy and intolerable and is what I believe might have pushed him to sexually abuse us.He would masturbate for hours wile staring at porn websites. he even needs to stare at dirty magazines when he works out.
He tried to rape me. He anally raped his ex wife and other ex girl friends (they told me).
This man must be stopped! We believe he moved from Chicago to Philadelphia because he ran out of victims to abuse in Chicago and word got around.
So please all women reading this: Heed our warning! Do not assume that because someone works in the mental health industry that they always have the best intent and that you will be safe with them!
They could very well be like Dumais and exploit it to their gain and try to control and destroy you for their enjoyment and sick needs.
Leave the sociopath alone. Do not tell his wife. They have no emotions. No remorse. They can do a lot of damage. I ended a relationship with a sociopath. I lost 6 k to him. He is dating another woman. Thank goodness I am off the hook. She will eventually find the truth but for now I am glad he found another source if supply. I pretended I believe his lies abd wished him the best of lucky. I don’t want have children and he told me this woman does. He was in doubt btw the two of us. I said there’s no doubt she is the one. Wished him a beautiful life with happy healthy children and now in recovering mode. They are violent people so please leave this guy and his wife aline
It’s been 3 ½ years since I’ve discovered this amazing site that enabled me to truly break free. I still think about the way the sociopath I was once with changed my life and I can start to see the positive things that have come with it little by little. But I also still remember crying after breaking up and feeling relieved at the same time. I still remember missing him even though all he did was hurt me and wanting to be alone forever after that. But I’ve come out as a stronger person. It’s probably a sentiment that we’ve all heard before, but what doesn’t kill us really could make us stronger and time helps a lot as well.
Unfortunately, there is never a break when it comes to living your life. You don’t get handed a vacation after living through something challenging. When I thought that I had finally left my past behind me, I started letting people into my life that I wasn’t sure about – I knew they weren’t sociopaths, so in a naive way, they felt safe (enough) for me anyway. And since I was tired of not trusting anyone, I allowed myself a few bad choices. All of that didn’t turn out so well and of course I was hurt in the process – what did I expect? So now, I think I finally really realized something.
So what I wanted to say that every single person here is amazing. And even if we move on from a sociopath, it doesn’t mean that other people are allowed to make us feel small. We are all worthy of love and self-love and even if that is hard to truly believe sometimes, I wish for everyone to feel this way.
You’re amazing. Let no one tell you otherwise. Stay strong and keep going!
Hi guys… it’s me again. I was doing ok with no contact and seeing my therapist again. I just saw her Friday night. Well low and behold I get messages by the sociopath’s on and off girlfriend of 16 years!!!! She was before the 2 wives, the child, everything!! She asked me questions about our relationship, I answered them honestly. Of course there were times when he was seeing both of us at the same time, however he was more serious with her. She shared texts and pics of them or pics of him. I did the same. This poor girl ( about 33, 34) has already had a stroke!! She still loves him but states that she is done…. I don’t believe that she is but that’s her problem. He called at 2am, I didn’t answer then he sent an email ( he’s pissed that I spoke with her) ignored that too. After all I know about him and have been thru with him it still hurt to hear all that… BUT I will retain my power and keep no contact and continue to move on from this toxic person. I feel like this is a NIGHTMARE that I can’t wake up from!! These people are pure evil!!
Hey Cindy, Hope you have everything under control still. Sounds a bit crazy – these layers and layers that you have to peel back to get at the truth. Stick to no contact.
I confess that in the end I did not stick to no contact . It has changed everything for the better (at least for the moment). I have my doubts now about who/what type of person I thought he was. I feel in control and much calmer and like I am interacting with a normal guy who is conflicted and doesn’t know what to do. We all have those situations, right? But I am not allowing him to see me.
Hi Val, how did I know that it would be you who would reply? Thank you so much!! No, I’m not doing well, these layers are too much!! The girl was very nice and she’s been through the wringer like the rest of us, so I’m not blaming her. He had the nerve to get angry and me and send me an angry email asking ” why the fuck did you tell her all that”? Which hurt because clearly he only cared that she knows everything and said she is done with him. Lord, I just want to not hurt over this guy anymore!! The only comfort that I take from the new revelations is that basically he does the same thing to her as me and probably the rest. He’s been coming in and out of her life for 16 years. Most times they will be close ( she states seeing each other almost daily , making plans for their future, etc.) then BOOM she can’t reach him at night, he’s not replying to texts/calls then he just disappears. It’s amazing me that she’s allowed this for 16 years!!! I’m hurt on so many levels for so many reasons. Right now I don’t have to worry about contact from him because he’s angry and upset but one day he won’t be and I’m terrified that he may contact me. I pray that I’m healed and my resolve is SUPER STRONG to not have anything to do with him. It was so unreal talking to this girl… she kept expressing how much she loves him, he’s the only man she’s ever loved, how she’s loved him through 2 marriages, a child, everything!… although he’s caused her so much hurt!! We all have the same story!! I’m like wth… does he have a magic spell that he casts over us?!! Well like her I still love him but I’ve decided to love me more… I’ll have to love him from a distance. I want my life back… I want to be happy and enjoy life instead of merely existing. I pray that God will bring the right man into my life, someone whom I will love as passionately as I did this man but who will love me just as much, care and respect me. I still have faith that that will happen. Of course you know I struck back with some nasty emails of my own… which he did not reply. I didn’t think he would. I ridiculed him for not keeping his affairs straight and for me telling the girl EVERYTHING!! We compared notes, exchanged pics and texts from him. I can’t really lie his way out but I’m sure he did lie. Well Lady, thank you so much for replying to me ( no one else here seems to care ). I sure needed the support. I’m off work today so I can take my husband to his Drs appointment but I’m going to work out first. Val, this last incident most be bad because I have no appetite and I’m not eating much. Smh!! Have a great day Doll!! You be careful with him too!
I think it’s good that you are in touch with her because it shows you how very toxic the situation could be for you. You don’t want to throw away 16 years of your life to someone like him. She should be a warning to you (in a good way, I mean) that you are doing the right thing. If someone had contacted me with a similar story I’d be relieved I got out before my life was completely ruined. I don’t entirely trust mine anyway. While he’s showing me a different side of him I still think he has some dangerous narc qualities. I am staying away. Trust yourself, Cindy.
I’m trusting myself Val, but even if I wanted to be with him I couldn’t. I’m miserable and just hanging on…. trying to work my way through this. I pray that my desire for him go away soon!!! But it’s amazing… the 2 that I’ve spoken with ( his ex-wife) are deeply in love with him. It’s like he has all of us under a spell. If I wasn’t suffering I would find it fascinating. That poor girl…. there’s no way in hell I could endure this for 16 years!! Thanks Val!
Hey Val…. I’m doing well!! Thank you for asking. I had therapy last night and felt better. Today is warm and sunny so I walked 5 1/2 miles and shopped a little. I’m doing great today!! How are you?
Good to hear! I too am doing well! Last week was actually quite rough in a way because we were in contact for all of it, surprisingly, and he sucked up days of my time. Exhausting. I wasn’t sleeping or eating. But I am back on track now. I think I’ll be able to move on soon. A lot of what I suspected all along is apparently true and I think I am dealing more with an Aspie than with someone with NPD. It’s not exactly a relief but it’s more understandable.
I did not realize we “sprung forward” this morning so I’ve lost an hour! Yikes!
I seem to be fully recovered. But maybe that’s because we talked and sorted out a lot of it. Maybe that’s because I was wrong. Maybe that’s because he’s not acting the way he had been. Maybe it’s because I am in a much better place mentally. I think it’s just time, Cindy. I managed to do two months NC and now I am fine. We are in constant contact but I don’t let him manipulate me anymore.
I am over the individuals, there was more than one some worse than others. So over them like WTF was I thinking. I have grown a LOT but I am not invulnerable as I still have a lot of empathy, but I try hard to stay objective and I try hard to listen and pay attention to what people tell me…and to how they act….mostly how they act.
At this point in my life I choose to not be in any more “relationships” I will date for fun but my heart belongs to me.
This is a great Ted Talk about what my life is like now…..not me but a similar story. 13.58 minutes.
Ok… I pray that I can get to 2 months of complete no contact, but according to my therapist he will be back and pursue me because I excite him. I just feel like I’ll never completely get over what he’s done to me. I know that he’s not thinking about me right now, I wish I could say the same. He’s taken something away from me, I pray that I can get it back. I’m happy that you are doing well Val.
He might be back, Cindy, but you will reach the point – I promise – where you will be able to resist him and he will listen to you. Just keep working at it. You will get your mojo back and things will change. The good thing about these types – or at least about mine – is that nothing seems to get to him. It just rolls off him, like water off a duck’s back. It’s fine because what’s the point of going over it again and again, and I know I can be pretty insane myself. I think we all need to be at peace with ourselves.
I agree Brianna. It’s all about abandonment. But I am the one who usually does the abandoning. I’ve also decided that I don’t need another relationship. I don’t want to take care of anyone, I don’t want to live with anyone, I’ve been married twice (still am to the 2nd guy) but I hate being married (I feel trapped – I’ve done things to bust out that I am not proud of). I want to eat, sleep and do what I want when I want. I have a kid, I have lots of friends, I live in two world cities, I work part time. I’m not afraid of anything. What’s not to like? Even HE envies my existence. I have two dates this week but as I said, I am not in the market for a relationship. Fun, yes. Relationship, no.
Dating a Sociopath 
I only found this website less than 24 hours ago and I’ve been devouring the material like a maniac. I never fully suspected my ex of being an actual SP, just having SP or narc tendencies. After all, I haven’t seen her in almost a year now (though there has been contact), so it’s easy to forget how things really played out.
I looked at the article about the stages a victim goes through when grieving a relationship with a sociopath, and it was scarily accurate of what I’m going through. My understanding of who this person is is so distorted. I yo-yo between rational and emotional, and I don’t know why my brain is trying to understand things rather than just move on. Perhaps it is because everything we’ve ever learned and experienced in life comes into question, and we suffer from some cognitive dissonance. That’s my best understanding and explanation as to why we struggle to move on from a sociopath.
When my symptoms looked too familiar for comfort, I started to look more into the ways sociopaths work and date, and it all sounded too disturbingly familiar. Scarily so. Some things don’t sound like her but many things are just far too true to be coincidence. I think she’s a low-functioning sociopath and possibly doesn’t actually realise that she operates differently to everyone else. She believes I simply gave up on our relationship because I have a skewed understanding of how relationships work. She even once suggested that I probably have a mental illness.
Then, the more I read on here, the more memories flood back. Again, I’m still doubtful if she actually is a SP but perhaps it’s best to err on the side of caution.
I remember early in the relationship we actually talked about her now-estranged, sociopathic mother and the horrible upbringing she suffered. She taught me how to spot a psychopath from what she read in a Jon Ronson book in an “attempt to get an insight into her mother.” I can’t remember what [she said] the psychopath red flags were but I remember saying “Woah, maybe I’m a psychopath” to which she replied “the end of the test says if you’ve read this checklist and starting to worry you’re a sociopath, you’re probably not one.” We both laughed, agreed that neither of us were psychopaths and moved on.
If she’s not a SP, this is just a crazy coincidence. If she is, this is probably a calculated conversation she has with every new boyfriend…
*shudder*
But I still love the illusion. I miss the idea of her. She was perfect. She was my soulmate. If she’s not an SP, she’s my dream girl 😆
Shake it off, Stephen.
Welcome to the site stephen.
Hi Val, I’m ok. This one is anything but boring. I will now listen to you all when you tell me how they will pursue you when you are trying to move on!! I’ve never seen this from him. He desperately was trying to prevent me from leaving his life…. mind you I haven seen him since Christmas Day!! Omg the apologies, the ” I love yous ” the promises ( which I know won’t be kept). I was so upset Friday night, he asked me why I was crying… I tried to tell him between crying hysterically that he hurts me, I don’t deserve it. I had to break down exactly what he does that hurts me. He tried to explain that he’s a police officer and can’t always return my texts within hours (bs!!!). I tried to explain that it’s clear that he doesn’t want me and it’s best for the both of us that we end this for good. Well, as you know the sociopath is going to get what he wants!!! More promises to spend more time with me, to reply to my messages. It’s too late and I know it won’t last. He wore me down and stayed the night…. usually he would have something to do the next morning and have to leave. This time he insisted on taking me to breakfast. I figured if I gave him his fix he would be good and I’ll have a reprieve. He dragged breakfast out for 2.5 hours, asked me what my plans were for the day, then told me his. When he dropped me off I say goodbye… he said “I’ll see you later”. I heard from him about 6pm asking how my day was going. Thank God he was still enjoying himself with out of state relatives ( or so he said) and did not try to come back over. As much as I wanted that pursuit to be about how much he loves and wants me, I know it was about his ego and making sure his possession didn’t go anywhere. Until that night I’ve never felt like he viewed me as a possession. Little by little I’m seeing in him all the things that others have mentioned here. I still love him but I have to keep trying to get away!!! I kept telling him that I have to move on with my life without him. It doesn’t get why!!! Smh!!!
Glad you’re okay but yes, it was about his ego and now that you’ve supplied him, he is likely to disappear again – if not this week, then next. Read Sam Vaknin’s stuff again.
kindspirit here, I need to fix my account…
I never would’ve imagined either that mine goes out of his way to pursue me after so much disinterest in saving our relationship, so many times. Once they lose their “supply” they get desperate and are trying to get it back for whatever reason.
It’s so weird.
I tried to explain to mine how he hurt me, why I was crying so much and how I feel when he does certain things (like leaving me waiting without apologies). He claims he understands and to do it all better, but I end up crying and explaining something again. They just listen because that’s what they think we want. Anything to get you back in the cycle. At least mine seems to be working that way.
And yes I got a lot of excuses from him too why he couldn’t do certain things, but funny enough he always told me I’m full of excuses 😝
How do i let go of a man who i love after taking full advantage of distroying my life not only jobs but my family and friends and took me away to control me far away from my home ..
Hi maureen. Thank you for writing. It takes time. A lot of time. First you have to undo the brainwashing and mind control that they have done to you. Then build a network you trust. Even if that is only one person. Stay with the present it is all you have. Right now. Do things that make you happy. Give yourself time to heal. Know that the state of your life is not a reflection of you as a person. Accept that some things might never be the same. As much as you can reach out and reach back to what you were doing and where you were before you were targeted. Who were people in your life who loved you and you could trust? Do you have one old friend or family member you can reach out to to help you? Just one person you know would be on your side? Next you need to build hope and opportunities. Write yourself a support plan. I am going to try to write a post about this later today. This will help you to set some small managable goals for you. Know that you can do this. You can heal and recover. It just takes time.
Ugh I am having a really hard time today. I just wrote a 3 page letter to the (ex) wife. He doesn’t know that I know who she is and that we know people in common. Then I thought it better that I write to him and tell him that I am still in turmoil about the lying, the deception and the stalking, and that I am trying to keep myself from writing to his (ex)wife. I don’t know how he will react but he’s always been quite calm and I should be able to explain to him what he’s done. It’s not about love or wanting him back or anything like that. It’s that I don’t take kindly to someone lying to me and therefore taking away my free will and ability to make my own decisions based on full information. He has also not only made it impossible for me to go on the dating site, he has ruined a 40 year connection to my and my son’s old school, because I cannot go to events etc without worrying that I’ll run into him. I don’t know what to do…Of course if I write to him I will be breaking NC, but I don’t see another way. I just think that he and I have got to have a conversation about this if he doesn’t want me to blow up his life because I am about to blow.
Hi Valerie, I am surprised that he doesn’t know who you know in common with her. They usually make it their business to know EVERYTHING. I recall mine hacking into his new persons account, and looking at my social media to see what mutual friends we had.
It sounds as if you are struggling with what has happened to you. Also the injustice too, that he can treat you this way, lie and then move on like nothing has happened. I hear your pain.
I am not going to tell you to move on, get over it. I know it takes time, and it takes considerable healing. I would not recommend sending him your letter. I would however strongly recommend, writing the letter, and write it again and again and again. You have a need to get your feelings out. Don’t contact he will only use this for triangulation purposes. To make you out to be the crazy one (see how crazy she is, and how much I went through, she still cannnot leave me alone, I am great)….
This articles writes how to get your feelings out, without breaking no contact.
https://datingasociopath.com/2013/05/09/how-to-get-your-feelings-out-without-breaking-no-contact/
Be strong. Write it but don’t send it. See how you feel about it tomorrow, but know that your words will fall on deaf ears. He won’t regret or feel remorse for anything he has done. It will empower him – it’s one of the things he can feel. You won’t get what you want out of it, and he’ll get exactly what he needs. Wait a day, reassess. You will hopefully feel different tomorrow.
Thank you.
I’ve been waiting and reassessing for months now and I know the whole NC thing and what it is supposed to do, etc. So many times I have come so close to doing this. I think had he not stalked me I would have let it go but because he did, it convinced me even more that I have an obligation to other people to shine a light on this whole thing. We did not use condoms, for one thing (long story but at one point he actually got angry at me about my insistence). That means he is probably not using them with other people. That means if he is sleeping with his wife, he is passing on to her whatever he might have picked up from someone else (nothing from me – I got checked). These are people who are very long term prominent members of what is a very small community. It was my community too, until he ruined it. I warned him long ago that this might happen. He knew about that connection but because he tried to hide from me who he was, he never would guess in a million years that I know who his ex is or how to get in touch with her.
But that’s not really the point anyway. I’m not going to blackmail him. I just think he needs to know that he messed with the wrong person both because of my way of operating in the world and because of my position in the community, both of which I was quite transparent about.
He won’t even let it get to the point where you can blackmail him. He’ll preemptively strike so that you can’t, or if you do your good name will already be tainted.
You have your community. He can take that away without hesitation or remorse. You could be left with even less.
Hang in there. These feelings will pass.
As positiva said, write it out a bajillion times if you have to, but don’t let your emotions dictate your behaviour. That can be our shortcoming, you and I. It’s why we are where we are. It also can be why we will experience some amazing things in life that people like him never will. I actually feel kinda sorry for him (and my ex-gf) in a way. They’re living the only way they know how, and I guess they have a right to live whatever they consider a meaningful and “happy” life? I guess? Maybe? It sucks that it’s to our detriment.
The point is, our feelings can get us into a lot of trouble, and I’m worried you could be setting yourself up for more.
Hey Val…. I know how you feel. You’re angry and feel wronged. Been there!! And you feel the need to unload in him… been there too. If it will make you feel better then do it. As someone stated he may not care or reply but if you just want to unload in him then do that. I can sense you are in turmoil, I know that feeling exactly!! You will get there. Even with all that happened over the weekend I am still able to come back to my peace. It took a lot for me to get here…. you will eventually get here too!!
Hey Cindy, Thanks. Glad you are back to a peaceful place after all that turmoil. I had a really good weekend but woke up this morning in turmoil. Who knows why. And yes I should be able to unload on him. I’ve done it before!
Maybe all of these assholes need to be exposed rather than ignored. Personally, I do not care if it feeds his ego or empowers him. He is just a little boy underneath it all.
My concern for you Valerie is that you don’t know what he’s capable of in retaliation. Seriously.
Think of the worst-case scenario. The worst possible outcome.
That’s not what will happen. What could possibly happen is actually much worse than you can imagine, because you are an empathetic soul.
These people will stop at nothing if they need to be vengeful because they just simply don’t care.
We can prepare ourselves and say “well if they do this, I’ll be prepared for it, if they do that I’ll be prepared for it” – the action they will take will be the one you’re not prepared for, the one you didn’t even consider because it’s just not in your nature.
He’s a little boy underneath, maybe, but do not underestimate what he can be and what he can do.
He shouldn’t underestimate me either. I am perfectly capable of wreaking my own havoc. I didn’t do anything deceptive and I don’t have a reputation to lose. He does.
Omg…. you sound so much like me when I first joined this group!! I’m not a passive or weak woman either. As much havoc as he wreaked on me emotionally, I’ve wreaked 10 times over on him financially and mentally. Believe me when I tell you I got revenge. I guess I’m lucky because my sociopath isn’t violent nor is he really vindictive. His only form of ” punishment” is to ignore me or withhold sex. It didn’t matter what I did, and I’ve done some crazy stuff to him: put him on a gay dating website, blackmailed into paying me double what he owed me, made him lose out on a job offer, contacted his then wife, etc. Did he get pissed? Yes… even threatened to never have anything to do with me only to be back a few weeks later. I don’t recommend that you do any of what I’ve done… I don’t know what kind of person you’re dealing with. I’m praying that you can get through this without drama.
I wouldn’t do all that, though I’d like to! Anyway, you crack me up. Keep up the good work!
Plus I think there is a feminist argument to be made. Do we just let men go around fucking random women without condoms? Do we just let them deceive us? These are honest questions. Maybe the whole NC thing is the wrong way to go about it.
My ex always ripped the condom off, for the record.
We used condoms the first time and that was it. They make you feel like you’re the only one and so close to them. After I spoke with the wife and found out that he was a serial cheater I got tested for EVERYTHING as well. Luckily everything came back negative!! Thank God!! Any subsequent sex has been with condoms. Although he questions why .
He’s not violent. I do know that. So I’m not worried about him attacking me or anything. Besides, I have my own people ;-).
Violence isn’t the only form of revenge. If he’s a sociopath, he will eliminate a threat. That doesn’t necessarily mean violence.
Haha. What is it with these people and condoms?? But really, I’m not going to try to blackmail him, I’m not going to contact his ex, I am simply going to tell him that he’d better figure out a way out of this because I am on edge and about to blow it all up. I’ve burned many a bridge in my life. He can’t revenge porn me or anything because it’s illegal and I have my own pictures and emails. Maybe he wants those all over the internet too? Not going to happen.
I think the condom thing is to drive up the intimacy. You’re special. (S)he trusts you, you should trust back, etc.
For all I know, Stephen Price, you are him.
For all I know, you’re my ex.
Now you’re being paranoid. It’s okay – I do the same. You think this is my real name? No. I’m terrified that if my ex found out that I know she’s a sociopath, she’ll see it as a threat and come back to destroy what little I have left. It’s been 3 months since she blocked me, she has a new victim, I think I’m safe.
Still, it doesn’t matter what advice people give, at the end of the day you’re going to do whatever the hell you went. That’s okay. When the dust settles you’ll see I’m not your enemy. But by then I might be fleeing the country from my sociopathic ex 😉
And for all I know, he is not a sociopath. But even if he is, they crash all the time. My last one ended up in jail in Mexico (long time ago and nothing to do with me). Of course I had to bail him out and god knows what happened to him in there but it took two years and by the end I was so done with it and him.
Write a list of reasons to believe he is a sociopath and revisit it. I often wonder the same about my ex. I think it’s because we can’t comprehend such behaviour. It makes us physically uncomfortable, so sometimes our minds rely on what we understand and what we know – empaths. So we remember them as an empathetic person, and we start to feel guilty that we didn’t “make it work” and that maybe they were just misunderstood. Maybe everything was our fault.
Go back to the list. Check the facts. Your feelings betray you, don’t trust them.
I was so stunned when I found out that my guy was a sociopath I couldn’t go to work the next day!! My mind couldn’t handle that I had been with something like that!!
I was kidding and we are probably in different countries anyway. I am in the UK. Mine would probably laugh if I told him he was a sociopath. But that’s not what I’m going to say. I’m going to say that he has no right to take away another human being’s free will and ability to make a fully informed decision. He did that to me and he’s doing it to other people. I’m about to blow. He needs to figure out the next step. That is all. He probably will not respond but I will know that he’s got the message and he won’t know what I will do next just as I won’t know what he will do next. But as I said, not much he can do to me. The laws about stalking and harassment are pretty draconian here.
Sometimes, smear campaigns can be worse than any stalking or harrassment.
The condom thing. So weird. I once said to him you’re a financier and you don’t have condoms?? He broke with reality on another occasion and got angry at me because I insisted. It wasn’t about intimacy and trust. It was about his masculinity. This was before I knew he was married. Imagine not using condoms and going back to your partner of decades with whom you have 3 daughters. I just can’t get beyond that…Look, I don’t know that they are back together. I don’t think they are. But again that’s not the point. The point is as a feminist I think I have an obligation to call out this sort of behavior. I’m just giving him a chance and a warning.
Sleep on it before you fan the flames. 🙂
If you’re dealing with an actual sociopath this won’t end well for you, I’m afraid.
Promise to sleep on it at the very least. I promise tomorrow you can do whatever you want. Today – no.
Sleep on it. 🙂
xx
Thank you all for sharing your comments. I am dealing with a difficult aftermath of a sociopath. Can anyone please tell me how i can post my story on this website? I am a bit confused on how to do so thank you.
Yes but I can smear campaign him too, and worse because he is married and I am not. Worse because his kids and wife (or ex or whatever – they don’t live together but he said they were divorced and they’re not) share his last name and mine do not. Worse because I have nude pictures of him and he doesn’t have nude pictures of me.
Anyway Stephen, I just read your story. Sorry I missed it earlier. I didn’t realize there were new people around. Thanks for jumping in and commenting. I have my doubts because I haven’t seen him since I landed on covert cerebral narcissist, but when I found Sam Vaknin’s work I discovered that he ticks every single box from hoovering to triangulation to using sex as a punishment and addicted to internet porn. It’s all there. Scarily so. So yes it completely horrified me – not just because of what I thought I knew about him but also because of what I wanted when I met him (a fling). I went through something like this before – 18 years ago.
Maybe I’ll tell him that I met his ex at a fundraiser and it made me realize blah, blah, blah. Hahaha.
Exactly!!!! And also because they are selfish and want the pleasure without the barrier of a condom.
And if you are pregnant have a child they really do own you.
Happened to me with the first one. I got pregnant. I then had a miscarriage because a doctor thought I had an intestinal infection and gave me antibiotics that killed the fetus.
That sounds like it was a tough experience Valerie, you have been through a lot 😦
I actually think it’s a control thing – it’s abusive to resist using a condom when the partner wants to. I think I’ll tell him that I’ll let it go when I have proof that he is seeing a psychiatrist.
Am I reading this wrong? Did you just say that you would sleep with him without a condom when he is seeing a psychiatrist?
Oh Lord!!!
Yes well it’s toughened me up! But so far I haven’t fallen off a cliff – at least not completely ;-).
Reading wrong. That I would let the whole thing go – the dilemma about whether to tell his wife – when I have proof he is seeing a psychiatrist.
His wife already knows him. He has been doing to her exactly what he has been doing to you (and countless others) for far longer than you think. You should befriend her. Be KIND to her! She is the REAL victim.
Oh and he can lose his job if he really wants a smear campaign. I have legal protections and cannot lose mine.
Valerie…..you are playing with fire and you WILL GET BURNT!
Hi Kate, Thanks for your comments but this is old now! We ended the relationship last summer. After 6 months of no contact, he wanted to rekindle things this past January. I told him I was not interested and did not want to be in contact as long as he is married. He ignored my wishes and seemed to want a friendship, so I tried to be friends. That lasted a few weeks until I mildly teased him about his attention-seeking behavior. Then I got a HUGE dose of the silent treatment. I went ballistic because there I was, trying to be friends, being supportive about some transitions he is going through, again trying to give him what I thought he wanted, and he spent weeks trying to get me where he wanted me, so he could flip the script and manipulate me again. I told him he is a sociopath. Asked him if he tortured small animals and lit fires as a kid, said that in another life he could have been a serial killer, etc. But of course it was more fuel. Sigh. I deleted his last email (just two days ago) without reading it. I like the unmasked guy – sweet, vulnerable, clumsy. But the mask goes on and it’s like I am dealing with a robot. He is moving to another country, thank God. If I can fend him off for the next few months it will all be over.
I know he does the same to his wife – I am sort of his ‘alt-wife,’ I see now. But I cannot befriend her because that would be a huge deception. I would have to tell her and I cannot be the one to do that. I’ve come close on many occasions but in the end I can’t. In any case, I don’t see her as a victim. I see her as an enabler. I’m angry at her for allowing this. Maybe that will get me some flack on this board but if I can figure this out in two years of very intermittent contact, she is either really dumb or is getting what she wants out of it, which is a nice lifestyle, not having to work, and something that looks on the surface like a ‘normal’ family life. Maybe she’s abused, but so was I!!
My narc knows that I wrote her a letter that I did not mail but even that has not stopped him. I can only think that he wants me to tell her, he wants me to want him to leave her (which I don’t), all because he wants the chaos and drama and tears that this would provoke. I refuse to give that to him.
I did all that and more over a year ago. I think that stuff kinda turns him on. That’s when I really knew he was crazy!!! The gay dating site ( with pics and I had messaged a guy and set up a date) pissed him off royally but 3 weeks later he was asking to see me. Smh!!
LOL! Sorry but the whole thing is just so absurd. And here I am spending all this time on it. But at least I don’t have to work today. Might as well deal with HIM.
Hi. I tried to share my story but I don’t think it went through 😔. It felt very good to get it off my chest though 😊👍
It did publish Golilocks (I think) but there has been a lot of comments on this page since. I will try to find it, if you don’t find it first.
Thank you and thanks so much for your advice. He is trying to punish me but I won’t go back…EVER!😊
Me too, same here, it felt good to type my story and see it for a short while on here. I think my story was probably too long plus it was interlaced, woven with a story of a good decent man as well as various sociopath types i’d met on my journey, and a recent very short encounter with what sounds like a covert narc, very cunning this one but I think he’ll leave me alone now as hes frightened his wife will find him out so he smeared me to his wife as an evil flirting, jealous needy woman. I’m incidentally grieving, going through bereavement too. Blessings, divine love and light healing to all, take care
Hi Livvy. I hope you are ok will try to find your story.
I took a nap but just as angry when I woke up. Maybe even angrier.
😦
I’m okay. It must be the weather 😉
Oh no!!! It just happens like that sometimes… don’t let it consume you. Go do something that you like or go talk about it with a good girlfriend.
Most of my friends only understand the stalker bit. Sorry to be taking up so much of this board today and thank you all for being here. In the end, I did nothing. I think I’m stressed about other things and am distracting myself. It would be more helpful to be consumed with things that I need to do. Tomorrow will be a better day!
Positivagirl I asked you for advice but you never replied to me…
Please don’t apologize… this is what we’re all here for… to support and get support and understanding. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you!! It will get better.
Thank you!
I would love to know why they go AWOL when you call them out on their BS and then try to blame you!!! 😔
You’re welcome!
I’m actually struggling with a moral dilemma here. Ironically, it’s in defense of sociopaths, though they’d never understand. Perhaps by saying this I’m just giving them more information to mimic and throw off the scent.
But I do feel for sociopaths. They didn’t choose to be this way, and sometimes it’s a result of abuse during their formative years. They never learned love and affection and instead learned (from perhaps a psychopathic parent, as was the case with my ex) that control and manipulation was the norm for relationships. These would be what I’ve heard of as ‘Type 2’, the charming and charismatic, as opposed to the brash grandiose (Donald Trump, for example) and directly destructive. My ex possibly doesn’t know how madness-inducing her behavior is. She’s in her early 20s.
Perhaps some won’t even realise they’re sociopaths until much later in life, all the while believing they keep attracting bad luck or crazy people, wondering why their relationships aren’t working out – pushing away friends and exes thinking “it’s for the best that I don’t have this toxic person in my life”, when we see that as being discarded.
But the world is terrifying enough as it is without having to go through it without feeling any sense of connection or belonging with other humans. Without experiencing the love of a friend or a partner – that warm safe haven. Though I guess this doesn’t bother her, and she probably pities me for having my progress in life retarded by my emotions.
But I’d almost like to extend a hand to her. I know this world is strange and difficult. I know you must feel alone and often misunderstood. I know you get demonized by the masses – called vampires and monsters – and that must be awful to always be on edge and having to hide yourself, sometimes not even understanding what’s going on within your own world. To be fair, we have to demonise you – it’s our way of surviving the trauma you cause. It’s our survival mechanism just as much as your survival mechanism is to destroy us and watch us self-destruct and implode before your eyes, hardly batting an eyelid at the sight.
For so many reasons, I wish you didn’t exist. However, there are certain people in the world who wish certain types of people exist, and we condemn them for their prejudice. (#notallsociopaths, right?i wish). Still, I can learn from you, and I have chosen to do so (though the path has been excruciating and expensive on all fronts). You are here in this world and I guess you have just as much right to be here as me, and a right to be happy – whatever it is that you call being ‘happy.’ It just really sucks that your happiness is often linked to someone else’s misery.
So I hope my ex has a moment of self-reflection someday, and decides she wants some stability. Though I doubt that’s possible. I still believe that she’s low-functioning and deep down really wants what she’s “supposed” to have, as dictated by society. A long-term, loving relationship.
In the meantime, I’m so tempted to extend a hand and say to her: I know this world is scary, and you’ll be chased from town to town for the rest of your life for being the demon that you are. But feel free to drift in and out of my life from time to time, when you need validation, to feel wanted and needed, to feel safe. I have empathy to spare. Suck on my soul a while, little vampire. You’re still finding your way, and I truly feel for you, though you will probably never speak to me again.
xx
Think about it, when we ask “what’s it like being a sociopath and are they self-aware?” …. well, an unaware sociopath wouldn’t answer those questions would they – believing they’re a regular human being.
So how can we say definitively that they don’t exist? Or what life might be like for the confused sociopath who is yet to discover their true nature?
I can find it in my heart to see the humanity in mine too, and I’ve also learned from him. The other day I had a revelation that I had experienced another dimension of being and it gave me a weirdly euphoric high ;-). I have been through something that most people have not. We all have. That’s why we’re in this club. Part of me can definitely appreciate it.
Narcs have an authentic self and a false one. I even told mine once – way before I was aware of all of this – that he seemed like two different people – that he had a facade. I was really puzzled. I liked the authentic self much more than the false one, but I got more and more of the false one. I don’t know whether he is self-aware or not but if you offer a hand, say you’ll be there, pierce the armor, give them love and affection, they will discard you anyway. And let me add that they will suck it all up while doing so. What I thought was closeness was simply more supply for him. All the while he would tell me how perceptive I was, and I am.
Towards the end, when I was getting warmer and began to suspect everything from Asperger’s to multiple personality disorder to an internet porn addiction, though I didn’t say anything directly, mine had a clear break with reality, which he acknowledged, along with his first and only narc rage (scared me). He then pushed me away and moved on. He had revealed too much. They don’t want to be self-aware because most of them are actually quite content, as long as their false self remains intact.
But then mine is a very high functioning financier (classic – he couldn’t do what he does without being a psychopath) and middle-aged. He’s had a long-term stable relationship – decades, 3 kids. He’s a very responsible father. That’s one of the reasons I thought he was “safe.” Haha. I am more unstable that way than he is yet he is way more insane than I am. Yours might be quite capable of finding a long-term stable relationship, but that’s what’s called “secondary supply,” at least in narc speak.
Have you come across Sam Vaknin (Malignant Self Love)? I suspect you would find him quite fascinating even if his work doesn’t explain your ex 100%. I recommend him to everyone because when I found him, it all suddenly fell into place – made perfect sense. It’s all on the internet.
Awwww….. you’re a very loving, compassionate soul Stephen!!
That’s why I’m an easy target 😦
I know but don’t stop being who you are because some disordered people can’t appreciate it. I’m a very kind, loving and compassionate person myself, I won’t change who I am… I’ll just be careful in the future to who I give all that to.
Just realising I’m the lethal combination of overthinking and overanalyzing everything, and trusting my heart over my head. Descending into madness as I try to make sense of everything.
I think this is what it would feel like to be unplugged from The Matrix. Seeing a gritty reality I was completely unaware of, and majority of the population can’t comprehend what I’ve experienced, and lucky for them, they never will.
I kind of value that unplugged from the Matrix experience. I feel that it helps me to understand the world more clearly. But that’s just me. Hope you are doing better.
I and many other women have been extreme abuse victims to one of the worst kind of people possible: A A highly trained and educated Psychologist who is clearly a sociopath. Myself and many other of his victims are speaking out about the harrowing experiences with this man.
Before anyone panics: I have spoken to my attorney and I know my rights regarding mentioning the abuser’s name. Since it is TRUTHFUL it is legal to post anywhere on the internet or tell anyone. The most harrowing abuse one can receive is by a Psychologist as I and many others who have been victimized by Dr. Gary Dumais can attest to. And there are many of us and we have spoken together about the horrors that this man has done to us.
Dr. Gary Dumais has a very long history of ALL forms of abuse on the women he has preyed on. And by far the Emotional and Psychological Abuse was the most cruel. Although he has hit me and others (and raped others), by far the emotional and psychological abuse was the worst since he knew exactly what to do. Two of his other victims agreed with me on that fully too. Dr. Gary Dumais LOVES to verbally emotionally,psychically, sexually and psychologically abuse women.As a huge misogynist and vicious sadist, he genuinely
enjoys dishing out the abuse and gets off on it sexually and mentally. I could see the look in his eyes!
And being a trained psychologist, he is very very,very good at the psychological abuse.
Yes, that is how he uses his training and psychology education. To abuse and hurt people because he gets off on it. Many of us even witnessed him abuse his now deceased cat.
Like most sociopaths, Dumais wears a good fake mask in the beginning.He seems normal, professional, decent and even charming. Like Ted Bundy did.
Do not be fooled by that facade. He uses his psychological training and education to fabricate that facade which eventually wears off.
And like other sociopaths, he has no moral compass and is never held accountable for his terrible actions or even acknowledges them. No remorse at all.
He is a pathological liar and master manipulator. Dumais would systematically break me down (and other his other victims) with constant abuse beating me into a depression and then tell me that ” I needed him” and that “he would fix me” and that I “needed his help and expertise”.
He would exploit very painful parts of our pasts and use it to his advantage and turn it against us. He would make us think we deserved the abuse. The insults, the berating, the degradation, the humiliation-It was OUR fault! Always “Blame the Victim” with Dumais. It was always our fault.We always deserved it.
Dumais knew I occasionally suffered from depression and he would intentionally exacerbate it by abusing me more, telling me I was useless, worthless etc and then would tell me that I should kill myself.
And yes, this is coming from someone who works in the mental health industry!
His raging alcoholism is frightening. He’d go through 21 bottles of red wine a week, and a whole bottle of Patron and a handle of Jack a week. He can’t go three days without drinking.
His porn addiction is unhealthy and intolerable and is what I believe might have pushed him to sexually abuse us.He would masturbate for hours wile staring at porn websites. he even needs to stare at dirty magazines when he works out.
He tried to rape me. He anally raped his ex wife and other ex girl friends (they told me).
This man must be stopped! We believe he moved from Chicago to Philadelphia because he ran out of victims to abuse in Chicago and word got around.
So please all women reading this: Heed our warning! Do not assume that because someone works in the mental health industry that they always have the best intent and that you will be safe with them!
They could very well be like Dumais and exploit it to their gain and try to control and destroy you for their enjoyment and sick needs.
Leave the sociopath alone. Do not tell his wife. They have no emotions. No remorse. They can do a lot of damage. I ended a relationship with a sociopath. I lost 6 k to him. He is dating another woman. Thank goodness I am off the hook. She will eventually find the truth but for now I am glad he found another source if supply. I pretended I believe his lies abd wished him the best of lucky. I don’t want have children and he told me this woman does. He was in doubt btw the two of us. I said there’s no doubt she is the one. Wished him a beautiful life with happy healthy children and now in recovering mode. They are violent people so please leave this guy and his wife aline
Hey guys!
It’s been 3 ½ years since I’ve discovered this amazing site that enabled me to truly break free. I still think about the way the sociopath I was once with changed my life and I can start to see the positive things that have come with it little by little. But I also still remember crying after breaking up and feeling relieved at the same time. I still remember missing him even though all he did was hurt me and wanting to be alone forever after that. But I’ve come out as a stronger person. It’s probably a sentiment that we’ve all heard before, but what doesn’t kill us really could make us stronger and time helps a lot as well.
Unfortunately, there is never a break when it comes to living your life. You don’t get handed a vacation after living through something challenging. When I thought that I had finally left my past behind me, I started letting people into my life that I wasn’t sure about – I knew they weren’t sociopaths, so in a naive way, they felt safe (enough) for me anyway. And since I was tired of not trusting anyone, I allowed myself a few bad choices. All of that didn’t turn out so well and of course I was hurt in the process – what did I expect? So now, I think I finally really realized something.
So what I wanted to say that every single person here is amazing. And even if we move on from a sociopath, it doesn’t mean that other people are allowed to make us feel small. We are all worthy of love and self-love and even if that is hard to truly believe sometimes, I wish for everyone to feel this way.
You’re amazing. Let no one tell you otherwise. Stay strong and keep going!
Hi guys… it’s me again. I was doing ok with no contact and seeing my therapist again. I just saw her Friday night. Well low and behold I get messages by the sociopath’s on and off girlfriend of 16 years!!!! She was before the 2 wives, the child, everything!! She asked me questions about our relationship, I answered them honestly. Of course there were times when he was seeing both of us at the same time, however he was more serious with her. She shared texts and pics of them or pics of him. I did the same. This poor girl ( about 33, 34) has already had a stroke!! She still loves him but states that she is done…. I don’t believe that she is but that’s her problem. He called at 2am, I didn’t answer then he sent an email ( he’s pissed that I spoke with her) ignored that too. After all I know about him and have been thru with him it still hurt to hear all that… BUT I will retain my power and keep no contact and continue to move on from this toxic person. I feel like this is a NIGHTMARE that I can’t wake up from!! These people are pure evil!!
Hey Cindy, Hope you have everything under control still. Sounds a bit crazy – these layers and layers that you have to peel back to get at the truth. Stick to no contact.
I confess that in the end I did not stick to no contact . It has changed everything for the better (at least for the moment). I have my doubts now about who/what type of person I thought he was. I feel in control and much calmer and like I am interacting with a normal guy who is conflicted and doesn’t know what to do. We all have those situations, right? But I am not allowing him to see me.
Stay strong.
Hi Val, how did I know that it would be you who would reply? Thank you so much!! No, I’m not doing well, these layers are too much!! The girl was very nice and she’s been through the wringer like the rest of us, so I’m not blaming her. He had the nerve to get angry and me and send me an angry email asking ” why the fuck did you tell her all that”? Which hurt because clearly he only cared that she knows everything and said she is done with him. Lord, I just want to not hurt over this guy anymore!! The only comfort that I take from the new revelations is that basically he does the same thing to her as me and probably the rest. He’s been coming in and out of her life for 16 years. Most times they will be close ( she states seeing each other almost daily , making plans for their future, etc.) then BOOM she can’t reach him at night, he’s not replying to texts/calls then he just disappears. It’s amazing me that she’s allowed this for 16 years!!! I’m hurt on so many levels for so many reasons. Right now I don’t have to worry about contact from him because he’s angry and upset but one day he won’t be and I’m terrified that he may contact me. I pray that I’m healed and my resolve is SUPER STRONG to not have anything to do with him. It was so unreal talking to this girl… she kept expressing how much she loves him, he’s the only man she’s ever loved, how she’s loved him through 2 marriages, a child, everything!… although he’s caused her so much hurt!! We all have the same story!! I’m like wth… does he have a magic spell that he casts over us?!! Well like her I still love him but I’ve decided to love me more… I’ll have to love him from a distance. I want my life back… I want to be happy and enjoy life instead of merely existing. I pray that God will bring the right man into my life, someone whom I will love as passionately as I did this man but who will love me just as much, care and respect me. I still have faith that that will happen. Of course you know I struck back with some nasty emails of my own… which he did not reply. I didn’t think he would. I ridiculed him for not keeping his affairs straight and for me telling the girl EVERYTHING!! We compared notes, exchanged pics and texts from him. I can’t really lie his way out but I’m sure he did lie. Well Lady, thank you so much for replying to me ( no one else here seems to care ). I sure needed the support. I’m off work today so I can take my husband to his Drs appointment but I’m going to work out first. Val, this last incident most be bad because I have no appetite and I’m not eating much. Smh!! Have a great day Doll!! You be careful with him too!
I think it’s good that you are in touch with her because it shows you how very toxic the situation could be for you. You don’t want to throw away 16 years of your life to someone like him. She should be a warning to you (in a good way, I mean) that you are doing the right thing. If someone had contacted me with a similar story I’d be relieved I got out before my life was completely ruined. I don’t entirely trust mine anyway. While he’s showing me a different side of him I still think he has some dangerous narc qualities. I am staying away. Trust yourself, Cindy.
I’m trusting myself Val, but even if I wanted to be with him I couldn’t. I’m miserable and just hanging on…. trying to work my way through this. I pray that my desire for him go away soon!!! But it’s amazing… the 2 that I’ve spoken with ( his ex-wife) are deeply in love with him. It’s like he has all of us under a spell. If I wasn’t suffering I would find it fascinating. That poor girl…. there’s no way in hell I could endure this for 16 years!! Thanks Val!
How are you doing this weekend, Cindy?
Hey Val…. I’m doing well!! Thank you for asking. I had therapy last night and felt better. Today is warm and sunny so I walked 5 1/2 miles and shopped a little. I’m doing great today!! How are you?
Good to hear! I too am doing well! Last week was actually quite rough in a way because we were in contact for all of it, surprisingly, and he sucked up days of my time. Exhausting. I wasn’t sleeping or eating. But I am back on track now. I think I’ll be able to move on soon. A lot of what I suspected all along is apparently true and I think I am dealing more with an Aspie than with someone with NPD. It’s not exactly a relief but it’s more understandable.
I did not realize we “sprung forward” this morning so I’ve lost an hour! Yikes!
Lol!!!
Does anyone ever truly get over the affects of what these people put us thru?
I seem to be fully recovered. But maybe that’s because we talked and sorted out a lot of it. Maybe that’s because I was wrong. Maybe that’s because he’s not acting the way he had been. Maybe it’s because I am in a much better place mentally. I think it’s just time, Cindy. I managed to do two months NC and now I am fine. We are in constant contact but I don’t let him manipulate me anymore.
I am over the individuals, there was more than one some worse than others. So over them like WTF was I thinking. I have grown a LOT but I am not invulnerable as I still have a lot of empathy, but I try hard to stay objective and I try hard to listen and pay attention to what people tell me…and to how they act….mostly how they act.
At this point in my life I choose to not be in any more “relationships” I will date for fun but my heart belongs to me.
This is a great Ted Talk about what my life is like now…..not me but a similar story. 13.58 minutes.
Ok… I pray that I can get to 2 months of complete no contact, but according to my therapist he will be back and pursue me because I excite him. I just feel like I’ll never completely get over what he’s done to me. I know that he’s not thinking about me right now, I wish I could say the same. He’s taken something away from me, I pray that I can get it back. I’m happy that you are doing well Val.
He might be back, Cindy, but you will reach the point – I promise – where you will be able to resist him and he will listen to you. Just keep working at it. You will get your mojo back and things will change. The good thing about these types – or at least about mine – is that nothing seems to get to him. It just rolls off him, like water off a duck’s back. It’s fine because what’s the point of going over it again and again, and I know I can be pretty insane myself. I think we all need to be at peace with ourselves.
I agree Brianna. It’s all about abandonment. But I am the one who usually does the abandoning. I’ve also decided that I don’t need another relationship. I don’t want to take care of anyone, I don’t want to live with anyone, I’ve been married twice (still am to the 2nd guy) but I hate being married (I feel trapped – I’ve done things to bust out that I am not proud of). I want to eat, sleep and do what I want when I want. I have a kid, I have lots of friends, I live in two world cities, I work part time. I’m not afraid of anything. What’s not to like? Even HE envies my existence. I have two dates this week but as I said, I am not in the market for a relationship. Fun, yes. Relationship, no.