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The condom thing. So weird. I once said to him you’re a financier and you don’t have condoms?? He broke with reality on another occasion and got angry at me because I insisted. It wasn’t about intimacy and trust. It was about his masculinity. This was before I knew he was married. Imagine not using condoms and going back to your partner of decades with whom you have 3 daughters. I just can’t get beyond that…Look, I don’t know that they are back together. I don’t think they are. But again that’s not the point. The point is as a feminist I think I have an obligation to call out this sort of behavior. I’m just giving him a chance and a warning.
Sleep on it before you fan the flames. 🙂
If you’re dealing with an actual sociopath this won’t end well for you, I’m afraid.
Promise to sleep on it at the very least. I promise tomorrow you can do whatever you want. Today – no.
Sleep on it. 🙂
Thank you all for sharing your comments. I am dealing with a difficult aftermath of a sociopath. Can anyone please tell me how i can post my story on this website? I am a bit confused on how to do so thank you.
Yes but I can smear campaign him too, and worse because he is married and I am not. Worse because his kids and wife (or ex or whatever – they don’t live together but he said they were divorced and they’re not) share his last name and mine do not. Worse because I have nude pictures of him and he doesn’t have nude pictures of me.
Anyway Stephen, I just read your story. Sorry I missed it earlier. I didn’t realize there were new people around. Thanks for jumping in and commenting. I have my doubts because I haven’t seen him since I landed on covert cerebral narcissist, but when I found Sam Vaknin’s work I discovered that he ticks every single box from hoovering to triangulation to using sex as a punishment and addicted to internet porn. It’s all there. Scarily so. So yes it completely horrified me – not just because of what I thought I knew about him but also because of what I wanted when I met him (a fling). I went through something like this before – 18 years ago.
Maybe I’ll tell him that I met his ex at a fundraiser and it made me realize blah, blah, blah. Hahaha.
Exactly!!!! And also because they are selfish and want the pleasure without the barrier of a condom.
And if you are pregnant have a child they really do own you.
Happened to me with the first one. I got pregnant. I then had a miscarriage because a doctor thought I had an intestinal infection and gave me antibiotics that killed the fetus.
That sounds like it was a tough experience Valerie, you have been through a lot 😦
I actually think it’s a control thing – it’s abusive to resist using a condom when the partner wants to. I think I’ll tell him that I’ll let it go when I have proof that he is seeing a psychiatrist.
Am I reading this wrong? Did you just say that you would sleep with him without a condom when he is seeing a psychiatrist?
Yes well it’s toughened me up! But so far I haven’t fallen off a cliff – at least not completely ;-).
Reading wrong. That I would let the whole thing go – the dilemma about whether to tell his wife – when I have proof he is seeing a psychiatrist.
His wife already knows him. He has been doing to her exactly what he has been doing to you (and countless others) for far longer than you think. You should befriend her. Be KIND to her! She is the REAL victim.
Oh and he can lose his job if he really wants a smear campaign. I have legal protections and cannot lose mine.
Valerie…..you are playing with fire and you WILL GET BURNT!
Hi Kate, Thanks for your comments but this is old now! We ended the relationship last summer. After 6 months of no contact, he wanted to rekindle things this past January. I told him I was not interested and did not want to be in contact as long as he is married. He ignored my wishes and seemed to want a friendship, so I tried to be friends. That lasted a few weeks until I mildly teased him about his attention-seeking behavior. Then I got a HUGE dose of the silent treatment. I went ballistic because there I was, trying to be friends, being supportive about some transitions he is going through, again trying to give him what I thought he wanted, and he spent weeks trying to get me where he wanted me, so he could flip the script and manipulate me again. I told him he is a sociopath. Asked him if he tortured small animals and lit fires as a kid, said that in another life he could have been a serial killer, etc. But of course it was more fuel. Sigh. I deleted his last email (just two days ago) without reading it. I like the unmasked guy – sweet, vulnerable, clumsy. But the mask goes on and it’s like I am dealing with a robot. He is moving to another country, thank God. If I can fend him off for the next few months it will all be over.
I know he does the same to his wife – I am sort of his ‘alt-wife,’ I see now. But I cannot befriend her because that would be a huge deception. I would have to tell her and I cannot be the one to do that. I’ve come close on many occasions but in the end I can’t. In any case, I don’t see her as a victim. I see her as an enabler. I’m angry at her for allowing this. Maybe that will get me some flack on this board but if I can figure this out in two years of very intermittent contact, she is either really dumb or is getting what she wants out of it, which is a nice lifestyle, not having to work, and something that looks on the surface like a ‘normal’ family life. Maybe she’s abused, but so was I!!
My narc knows that I wrote her a letter that I did not mail but even that has not stopped him. I can only think that he wants me to tell her, he wants me to want him to leave her (which I don’t), all because he wants the chaos and drama and tears that this would provoke. I refuse to give that to him.
I did all that and more over a year ago. I think that stuff kinda turns him on. That’s when I really knew he was crazy!!! The gay dating site ( with pics and I had messaged a guy and set up a date) pissed him off royally but 3 weeks later he was asking to see me. Smh!!
LOL! Sorry but the whole thing is just so absurd. And here I am spending all this time on it. But at least I don’t have to work today. Might as well deal with HIM.
Hi. I tried to share my story but I don’t think it went through 😔. It felt very good to get it off my chest though 😊👍
It did publish Golilocks (I think) but there has been a lot of comments on this page since. I will try to find it, if you don’t find it first.
Thank you and thanks so much for your advice. He is trying to punish me but I won’t go back…EVER!😊
Me too, same here, it felt good to type my story and see it for a short while on here. I think my story was probably too long plus it was interlaced, woven with a story of a good decent man as well as various sociopath types i’d met on my journey, and a recent very short encounter with what sounds like a covert narc, very cunning this one but I think he’ll leave me alone now as hes frightened his wife will find him out so he smeared me to his wife as an evil flirting, jealous needy woman. I’m incidentally grieving, going through bereavement too. Blessings, divine love and light healing to all, take care
Hi Livvy. I hope you are ok will try to find your story.
I took a nap but just as angry when I woke up. Maybe even angrier.
I’m okay. It must be the weather 😉
Oh no!!! It just happens like that sometimes… don’t let it consume you. Go do something that you like or go talk about it with a good girlfriend.
Most of my friends only understand the stalker bit. Sorry to be taking up so much of this board today and thank you all for being here. In the end, I did nothing. I think I’m stressed about other things and am distracting myself. It would be more helpful to be consumed with things that I need to do. Tomorrow will be a better day!
Positivagirl I asked you for advice but you never replied to me…
Please don’t apologize… this is what we’re all here for… to support and get support and understanding. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you!! It will get better.
I would love to know why they go AWOL when you call them out on their BS and then try to blame you!!! 😔
I’m actually struggling with a moral dilemma here. Ironically, it’s in defense of sociopaths, though they’d never understand. Perhaps by saying this I’m just giving them more information to mimic and throw off the scent.
But I do feel for sociopaths. They didn’t choose to be this way, and sometimes it’s a result of abuse during their formative years. They never learned love and affection and instead learned (from perhaps a psychopathic parent, as was the case with my ex) that control and manipulation was the norm for relationships. These would be what I’ve heard of as ‘Type 2’, the charming and charismatic, as opposed to the brash grandiose (Donald Trump, for example) and directly destructive. My ex possibly doesn’t know how madness-inducing her behavior is. She’s in her early 20s.
Perhaps some won’t even realise they’re sociopaths until much later in life, all the while believing they keep attracting bad luck or crazy people, wondering why their relationships aren’t working out – pushing away friends and exes thinking “it’s for the best that I don’t have this toxic person in my life”, when we see that as being discarded.
But the world is terrifying enough as it is without having to go through it without feeling any sense of connection or belonging with other humans. Without experiencing the love of a friend or a partner – that warm safe haven. Though I guess this doesn’t bother her, and she probably pities me for having my progress in life retarded by my emotions.
But I’d almost like to extend a hand to her. I know this world is strange and difficult. I know you must feel alone and often misunderstood. I know you get demonized by the masses – called vampires and monsters – and that must be awful to always be on edge and having to hide yourself, sometimes not even understanding what’s going on within your own world. To be fair, we have to demonise you – it’s our way of surviving the trauma you cause. It’s our survival mechanism just as much as your survival mechanism is to destroy us and watch us self-destruct and implode before your eyes, hardly batting an eyelid at the sight.
For so many reasons, I wish you didn’t exist. However, there are certain people in the world who wish certain types of people exist, and we condemn them for their prejudice. (#notallsociopaths, right?i wish). Still, I can learn from you, and I have chosen to do so (though the path has been excruciating and expensive on all fronts). You are here in this world and I guess you have just as much right to be here as me, and a right to be happy – whatever it is that you call being ‘happy.’ It just really sucks that your happiness is often linked to someone else’s misery.
So I hope my ex has a moment of self-reflection someday, and decides she wants some stability. Though I doubt that’s possible. I still believe that she’s low-functioning and deep down really wants what she’s “supposed” to have, as dictated by society. A long-term, loving relationship.
In the meantime, I’m so tempted to extend a hand and say to her: I know this world is scary, and you’ll be chased from town to town for the rest of your life for being the demon that you are. But feel free to drift in and out of my life from time to time, when you need validation, to feel wanted and needed, to feel safe. I have empathy to spare. Suck on my soul a while, little vampire. You’re still finding your way, and I truly feel for you, though you will probably never speak to me again.
Think about it, when we ask “what’s it like being a sociopath and are they self-aware?” …. well, an unaware sociopath wouldn’t answer those questions would they – believing they’re a regular human being.
So how can we say definitively that they don’t exist? Or what life might be like for the confused sociopath who is yet to discover their true nature?
I can find it in my heart to see the humanity in mine too, and I’ve also learned from him. The other day I had a revelation that I had experienced another dimension of being and it gave me a weirdly euphoric high ;-). I have been through something that most people have not. We all have. That’s why we’re in this club. Part of me can definitely appreciate it.
Narcs have an authentic self and a false one. I even told mine once – way before I was aware of all of this – that he seemed like two different people – that he had a facade. I was really puzzled. I liked the authentic self much more than the false one, but I got more and more of the false one. I don’t know whether he is self-aware or not but if you offer a hand, say you’ll be there, pierce the armor, give them love and affection, they will discard you anyway. And let me add that they will suck it all up while doing so. What I thought was closeness was simply more supply for him. All the while he would tell me how perceptive I was, and I am.
Towards the end, when I was getting warmer and began to suspect everything from Asperger’s to multiple personality disorder to an internet porn addiction, though I didn’t say anything directly, mine had a clear break with reality, which he acknowledged, along with his first and only narc rage (scared me). He then pushed me away and moved on. He had revealed too much. They don’t want to be self-aware because most of them are actually quite content, as long as their false self remains intact.
But then mine is a very high functioning financier (classic – he couldn’t do what he does without being a psychopath) and middle-aged. He’s had a long-term stable relationship – decades, 3 kids. He’s a very responsible father. That’s one of the reasons I thought he was “safe.” Haha. I am more unstable that way than he is yet he is way more insane than I am. Yours might be quite capable of finding a long-term stable relationship, but that’s what’s called “secondary supply,” at least in narc speak.
Have you come across Sam Vaknin (Malignant Self Love)? I suspect you would find him quite fascinating even if his work doesn’t explain your ex 100%. I recommend him to everyone because when I found him, it all suddenly fell into place – made perfect sense. It’s all on the internet.
Awwww….. you’re a very loving, compassionate soul Stephen!!
That’s why I’m an easy target 😦
I know but don’t stop being who you are because some disordered people can’t appreciate it. I’m a very kind, loving and compassionate person myself, I won’t change who I am… I’ll just be careful in the future to who I give all that to.
Just realising I’m the lethal combination of overthinking and overanalyzing everything, and trusting my heart over my head. Descending into madness as I try to make sense of everything.
I think this is what it would feel like to be unplugged from The Matrix. Seeing a gritty reality I was completely unaware of, and majority of the population can’t comprehend what I’ve experienced, and lucky for them, they never will.
I kind of value that unplugged from the Matrix experience. I feel that it helps me to understand the world more clearly. But that’s just me. Hope you are doing better.
I and many other women have been extreme abuse victims to one of the worst kind of people possible: A A highly trained and educated Psychologist who is clearly a sociopath. Myself and many other of his victims are speaking out about the harrowing experiences with this man.
Before anyone panics: I have spoken to my attorney and I know my rights regarding mentioning the abuser’s name. Since it is TRUTHFUL it is legal to post anywhere on the internet or tell anyone. The most harrowing abuse one can receive is by a Psychologist as I and many others who have been victimized by Dr. Gary Dumais can attest to. And there are many of us and we have spoken together about the horrors that this man has done to us.
Dr. Gary Dumais has a very long history of ALL forms of abuse on the women he has preyed on. And by far the Emotional and Psychological Abuse was the most cruel. Although he has hit me and others (and raped others), by far the emotional and psychological abuse was the worst since he knew exactly what to do. Two of his other victims agreed with me on that fully too. Dr. Gary Dumais LOVES to verbally emotionally,psychically, sexually and psychologically abuse women.As a huge misogynist and vicious sadist, he genuinely
enjoys dishing out the abuse and gets off on it sexually and mentally. I could see the look in his eyes!
And being a trained psychologist, he is very very,very good at the psychological abuse.
Yes, that is how he uses his training and psychology education. To abuse and hurt people because he gets off on it. Many of us even witnessed him abuse his now deceased cat.
Like most sociopaths, Dumais wears a good fake mask in the beginning.He seems normal, professional, decent and even charming. Like Ted Bundy did.
Do not be fooled by that facade. He uses his psychological training and education to fabricate that facade which eventually wears off.
And like other sociopaths, he has no moral compass and is never held accountable for his terrible actions or even acknowledges them. No remorse at all.
He is a pathological liar and master manipulator. Dumais would systematically break me down (and other his other victims) with constant abuse beating me into a depression and then tell me that ” I needed him” and that “he would fix me” and that I “needed his help and expertise”.
He would exploit very painful parts of our pasts and use it to his advantage and turn it against us. He would make us think we deserved the abuse. The insults, the berating, the degradation, the humiliation-It was OUR fault! Always “Blame the Victim” with Dumais. It was always our fault.We always deserved it.
Dumais knew I occasionally suffered from depression and he would intentionally exacerbate it by abusing me more, telling me I was useless, worthless etc and then would tell me that I should kill myself.
And yes, this is coming from someone who works in the mental health industry!
His raging alcoholism is frightening. He’d go through 21 bottles of red wine a week, and a whole bottle of Patron and a handle of Jack a week. He can’t go three days without drinking.
His porn addiction is unhealthy and intolerable and is what I believe might have pushed him to sexually abuse us.He would masturbate for hours wile staring at porn websites. he even needs to stare at dirty magazines when he works out.
He tried to rape me. He anally raped his ex wife and other ex girl friends (they told me).
This man must be stopped! We believe he moved from Chicago to Philadelphia because he ran out of victims to abuse in Chicago and word got around.
So please all women reading this: Heed our warning! Do not assume that because someone works in the mental health industry that they always have the best intent and that you will be safe with them!
They could very well be like Dumais and exploit it to their gain and try to control and destroy you for their enjoyment and sick needs.
Leave the sociopath alone. Do not tell his wife. They have no emotions. No remorse. They can do a lot of damage. I ended a relationship with a sociopath. I lost 6 k to him. He is dating another woman. Thank goodness I am off the hook. She will eventually find the truth but for now I am glad he found another source if supply. I pretended I believe his lies abd wished him the best of lucky. I don’t want have children and he told me this woman does. He was in doubt btw the two of us. I said there’s no doubt she is the one. Wished him a beautiful life with happy healthy children and now in recovering mode. They are violent people so please leave this guy and his wife aline
It’s been 3 ½ years since I’ve discovered this amazing site that enabled me to truly break free. I still think about the way the sociopath I was once with changed my life and I can start to see the positive things that have come with it little by little. But I also still remember crying after breaking up and feeling relieved at the same time. I still remember missing him even though all he did was hurt me and wanting to be alone forever after that. But I’ve come out as a stronger person. It’s probably a sentiment that we’ve all heard before, but what doesn’t kill us really could make us stronger and time helps a lot as well.
Unfortunately, there is never a break when it comes to living your life. You don’t get handed a vacation after living through something challenging. When I thought that I had finally left my past behind me, I started letting people into my life that I wasn’t sure about – I knew they weren’t sociopaths, so in a naive way, they felt safe (enough) for me anyway. And since I was tired of not trusting anyone, I allowed myself a few bad choices. All of that didn’t turn out so well and of course I was hurt in the process – what did I expect? So now, I think I finally really realized something.
So what I wanted to say that every single person here is amazing. And even if we move on from a sociopath, it doesn’t mean that other people are allowed to make us feel small. We are all worthy of love and self-love and even if that is hard to truly believe sometimes, I wish for everyone to feel this way.
You’re amazing. Let no one tell you otherwise. Stay strong and keep going!
Hi guys… it’s me again. I was doing ok with no contact and seeing my therapist again. I just saw her Friday night. Well low and behold I get messages by the sociopath’s on and off girlfriend of 16 years!!!! She was before the 2 wives, the child, everything!! She asked me questions about our relationship, I answered them honestly. Of course there were times when he was seeing both of us at the same time, however he was more serious with her. She shared texts and pics of them or pics of him. I did the same. This poor girl ( about 33, 34) has already had a stroke!! She still loves him but states that she is done…. I don’t believe that she is but that’s her problem. He called at 2am, I didn’t answer then he sent an email ( he’s pissed that I spoke with her) ignored that too. After all I know about him and have been thru with him it still hurt to hear all that… BUT I will retain my power and keep no contact and continue to move on from this toxic person. I feel like this is a NIGHTMARE that I can’t wake up from!! These people are pure evil!!
Hey Cindy, Hope you have everything under control still. Sounds a bit crazy – these layers and layers that you have to peel back to get at the truth. Stick to no contact.
I confess that in the end I did not stick to no contact . It has changed everything for the better (at least for the moment). I have my doubts now about who/what type of person I thought he was. I feel in control and much calmer and like I am interacting with a normal guy who is conflicted and doesn’t know what to do. We all have those situations, right? But I am not allowing him to see me.
Hi Val, how did I know that it would be you who would reply? Thank you so much!! No, I’m not doing well, these layers are too much!! The girl was very nice and she’s been through the wringer like the rest of us, so I’m not blaming her. He had the nerve to get angry and me and send me an angry email asking ” why the fuck did you tell her all that”? Which hurt because clearly he only cared that she knows everything and said she is done with him. Lord, I just want to not hurt over this guy anymore!! The only comfort that I take from the new revelations is that basically he does the same thing to her as me and probably the rest. He’s been coming in and out of her life for 16 years. Most times they will be close ( she states seeing each other almost daily , making plans for their future, etc.) then BOOM she can’t reach him at night, he’s not replying to texts/calls then he just disappears. It’s amazing me that she’s allowed this for 16 years!!! I’m hurt on so many levels for so many reasons. Right now I don’t have to worry about contact from him because he’s angry and upset but one day he won’t be and I’m terrified that he may contact me. I pray that I’m healed and my resolve is SUPER STRONG to not have anything to do with him. It was so unreal talking to this girl… she kept expressing how much she loves him, he’s the only man she’s ever loved, how she’s loved him through 2 marriages, a child, everything!… although he’s caused her so much hurt!! We all have the same story!! I’m like wth… does he have a magic spell that he casts over us?!! Well like her I still love him but I’ve decided to love me more… I’ll have to love him from a distance. I want my life back… I want to be happy and enjoy life instead of merely existing. I pray that God will bring the right man into my life, someone whom I will love as passionately as I did this man but who will love me just as much, care and respect me. I still have faith that that will happen. Of course you know I struck back with some nasty emails of my own… which he did not reply. I didn’t think he would. I ridiculed him for not keeping his affairs straight and for me telling the girl EVERYTHING!! We compared notes, exchanged pics and texts from him. I can’t really lie his way out but I’m sure he did lie. Well Lady, thank you so much for replying to me ( no one else here seems to care ). I sure needed the support. I’m off work today so I can take my husband to his Drs appointment but I’m going to work out first. Val, this last incident most be bad because I have no appetite and I’m not eating much. Smh!! Have a great day Doll!! You be careful with him too!
I think it’s good that you are in touch with her because it shows you how very toxic the situation could be for you. You don’t want to throw away 16 years of your life to someone like him. She should be a warning to you (in a good way, I mean) that you are doing the right thing. If someone had contacted me with a similar story I’d be relieved I got out before my life was completely ruined. I don’t entirely trust mine anyway. While he’s showing me a different side of him I still think he has some dangerous narc qualities. I am staying away. Trust yourself, Cindy.
I’m trusting myself Val, but even if I wanted to be with him I couldn’t. I’m miserable and just hanging on…. trying to work my way through this. I pray that my desire for him go away soon!!! But it’s amazing… the 2 that I’ve spoken with ( his ex-wife) are deeply in love with him. It’s like he has all of us under a spell. If I wasn’t suffering I would find it fascinating. That poor girl…. there’s no way in hell I could endure this for 16 years!! Thanks Val!
How are you doing this weekend, Cindy?
Hey Val…. I’m doing well!! Thank you for asking. I had therapy last night and felt better. Today is warm and sunny so I walked 5 1/2 miles and shopped a little. I’m doing great today!! How are you?
Good to hear! I too am doing well! Last week was actually quite rough in a way because we were in contact for all of it, surprisingly, and he sucked up days of my time. Exhausting. I wasn’t sleeping or eating. But I am back on track now. I think I’ll be able to move on soon. A lot of what I suspected all along is apparently true and I think I am dealing more with an Aspie than with someone with NPD. It’s not exactly a relief but it’s more understandable.
I did not realize we “sprung forward” this morning so I’ve lost an hour! Yikes!
Does anyone ever truly get over the affects of what these people put us thru?
I seem to be fully recovered. But maybe that’s because we talked and sorted out a lot of it. Maybe that’s because I was wrong. Maybe that’s because he’s not acting the way he had been. Maybe it’s because I am in a much better place mentally. I think it’s just time, Cindy. I managed to do two months NC and now I am fine. We are in constant contact but I don’t let him manipulate me anymore.
I am over the individuals, there was more than one some worse than others. So over them like WTF was I thinking. I have grown a LOT but I am not invulnerable as I still have a lot of empathy, but I try hard to stay objective and I try hard to listen and pay attention to what people tell me…and to how they act….mostly how they act.
At this point in my life I choose to not be in any more “relationships” I will date for fun but my heart belongs to me.
This is a great Ted Talk about what my life is like now…..not me but a similar story. 13.58 minutes.
Ok… I pray that I can get to 2 months of complete no contact, but according to my therapist he will be back and pursue me because I excite him. I just feel like I’ll never completely get over what he’s done to me. I know that he’s not thinking about me right now, I wish I could say the same. He’s taken something away from me, I pray that I can get it back. I’m happy that you are doing well Val.
He might be back, Cindy, but you will reach the point – I promise – where you will be able to resist him and he will listen to you. Just keep working at it. You will get your mojo back and things will change. The good thing about these types – or at least about mine – is that nothing seems to get to him. It just rolls off him, like water off a duck’s back. It’s fine because what’s the point of going over it again and again, and I know I can be pretty insane myself. I think we all need to be at peace with ourselves.
I agree Brianna. It’s all about abandonment. But I am the one who usually does the abandoning. I’ve also decided that I don’t need another relationship. I don’t want to take care of anyone, I don’t want to live with anyone, I’ve been married twice (still am to the 2nd guy) but I hate being married (I feel trapped – I’ve done things to bust out that I am not proud of). I want to eat, sleep and do what I want when I want. I have a kid, I have lots of friends, I live in two world cities, I work part time. I’m not afraid of anything. What’s not to like? Even HE envies my existence. I have two dates this week but as I said, I am not in the market for a relationship. Fun, yes. Relationship, no.
Sorry I went MIA. Something got messed up with my email address on here.
Anyway, I’m glad you are doing so well Valerie! That’s how I feel about my narc/sociopath, whatever he is. Even though just a couple of days ago he told me he wanted to make everything better and really sounded very convincing. But I just seem to be over the part where I’m always falling for him or addicted, or even care.
I did meet this new guy on a dating site though and I wanted to tell you girls about it, because even though I’m not looking for anything too serious now, you still never know and I tend to fall for people very quickly, especially when they’re charming.
Has anyone ever dealt with meating someone new and now thinking they might be a sociopath as well? Because the guy I’m seeing seems to be a ladies guy and knows what he’s doing. Charming and making me feel comfortable. And we’ve only been on two dates so far but I really enjoy myself around him. The funny or maybe scary thing is, he has the same last name as my ex and his birthday is one day after my ex’s. Now one might think that’s a bad sign or omen. I don’t know…. but knowing what i know now about how good sociopaths are with people or charming people and how many there actually are I’m almost afraid to end up in the same or similar situation with somebody new…
If you ladies have any thoughts on this I’d love to hear them!
Hi KindSpirit! Glad you are back! That is great that you are over yours. See, Cindy? It does happen!
I was worried for a bit that I would fall for the same type. I even went out on a date with a guy who TOLD me he was a sociopath. LOL. I didn’t see him again. Didn’t find him charming. Interesting, yes, but not charming. And I think because I didn’t fall for him immediately I wasn’t good supply.
A few weeks ago I met someone else. We really connected and had a really intense time for a few weeks but we hadn’t met up (we exchanged pictures, texted, phone calls, spent hours ‘with’ each other). We made a date and suddenly he blocked me with no warning. I was super super upset because I really liked him and I was worried. I found his email online and emailed him. He responded and told me that he thought I was out of his league and he knew what he did was ‘dickish’ but he was too chicken to test the waters. I felt shattered. Like I had to apologize for being fabulous ;-). So even though we feel unstable, there are others out there who are more unstable, albeit for different reasons.
One thing I always appreciated about my narc is that he never ever makes me feel defensive or criticizes me about anything. He accepts me completely for who I am. He is totally non judgmental. He does not feel threatened.
I have two more dates this week. Neither seems to be a sociopath. One is very sweet and open. The other a bit of a player already but not over the top.
So be wary but don’t worry that you’ll continue to attract the same types. It might happen for awhile because you are too conditioned, but as you get your bearings it will stop happening. I’d just wait with the guy who has the same last name as your ex (weird). Keep going on dates with him if you are enjoying yourself. Maybe date someone else too, to keep yourself from getting too involved too quickly.
That’s some good advice. Thank you!
And that’s interesting that you weren’t good supply because you didn’t fall for him right away. That might be helpful too in case I do somehow er involved with one again. To just take it easy in thto beginning.
That is strange that he would just block you for that reason. Somebody recently did that to me as well, we had really good conversations but haven’t met in person yet.. and then he just disappeared and even blocked me…
the world is full of weird people haha 😉
And I will try to find some other dateable guys as well. I do get fixated very easily but this time I wanna make sure I’m happy with only myself before I give my everything to someone else. 😉
Thanks for you advice!!
Everyone all right? I’ve come here a few times to confess but never left a comment. He was pretty relentless and I gave in. Then I left him. I realized in a moment of clarity that it would be a train wreck and I didn’t want my life thrown off the rails. So, deep breath. He’s trying to reconcile with the wife who kicked him out years ago for cheating, but he’s cheating with me while trying to reconcile. Hard to get my head around. I think he has narc qualities but mostly straddling the fence for years, scared, bored, too many responsibilities, using people while he sorts himself out. He’s trying (he says) but she’ll never trust him again (I know – she’s been humiliated and he has not changed). Sad. For me it’s easier this time because we’re closer (which is why I checked out – I didn’t want to develop feelings) and ended on a high note. You all might wonder if I feel guilty but in all honesty, while I’ve had a few pangs, I think of him as being single because he lied to me. We hadn’t seen each other for 8 months but it felt like no time had passed. In fact it was better because it was more relaxed since he quit lying to me (once I used his wife’s name he didn’t have much choice; why he didn’t run the other way I don’t know). We’re going on a year of this now. It feels more solid – like I know if I needed him he’d be there. I don’t know if it’s true but it’s what I feel. My friends think I am nuts or lonely or bored but the truth is that I like him even though I know he’s totally wrong for me. Now I have to keep myself from contacting him because I want him back.
Hi Val… I have to laugh because this is some of my own story. His wife had found out he was cheating and said she was done… enters ME, during our relationship he was reconciling with her but lying to me telling me that he was divorcing her. Lol!! I contacted her in 2015 and got the truth. Yes, I want him back too… still love him ( that never seems to go away) sigh 😔. He’s been contacting me lately, saying all the things I want to hear from him, but I know it’s all a lie! Hang in there Val. That to hear from you girl!
Hi Cindy! Thanks for making me laugh ;-). He said they were trying to make it work for the sake of ‘tradition’ and ‘finances.’ It’s all so slimy! Mind-boggling! How did I get involved in something like this??!! He doesn’t even worry that I’ll contact her. Anyway, at least now I know I am not the only person he treats this way. These guys must brain damage us somehow. There’s a topic for positivagirl. How sociopaths brain damage their victims.
I think I need this board to keep me grounded. Otherwise, it is too easy for this all to feel normal when in fact it is ridiculous.
Yes, if we allow it at some point you will just accept it because you love and want them so much!! I’ve never accepted as normal, rather I accepted because it was all I was going to get from him at because I desperately loved and wanted him in my life!! I agree.. it’s crazy but never normal!!
Yep!! And no, you’re not the only one he treats this way… I used to think I was the only one too until speaking with Miss 16 years. It still hurt but I was comforted a little to know it wasn’t just me, but that he lies, deceives and play games with all of us. Yes, if we let them they will do serious mental and emotional damage to us… but we are stronger than that!! We do they have to be so damn charming and loveable?! Well hang in there and don’t get sucked in!
I’m not sure I am stronger than that. It’s easy for someone on the outside (e.g. friends – not people on this board) to ask what I see in him – a friend did that today. But I cannot explain it. Whatever it is, it’s just there. He spent days breaking down my defenses but I guess they weren’t really there to begin with. I thought they were. I think it’s time for a therapist because I really cannot handle this on my own. I need to know what part of ME allows this to happen, and not blame him for all of it.
Yes, I highly recommend a therapist… ask if he/she has experience with narcissists and/or sociopaths. I have a good one, she breaks it down to me so that I understand exactly what’s going on and why I kept going back. Good luck!!
I’m going to make him pay for it.
Cindy, all good?
I just had a revelation but I don’t know where to find it written about on this board, so I wonder if you have thought about it. I realized that my narc cycles through our relationship creating drama and chaos whenever I present as calm and reasonable. This is usually after he has been stable for awhile – I calm down. He then withdraws. It’s not because he’s uncertain. It’s because he feeds off the drama that withdrawing creates. The flip side of this is that when I am dramatic, he is very, very good at calming me down. That’s because he understands drama. He doesn’t understand its opposite.
Drama (destabilization) = an adrenaline rush for him, which also explains the intensity of the sex – it’s like make up sex after a fight. Always. The whole cycle then starts again. Right now we are at a point where I am calm because he has been present every day for a whole month. I am still happy to spend time with him but as soon as I make a reasonable attempt at sorting out what spending time would look like, he creates chaos and uncertainty. It’s an addiction. He’s a drama queen because he is an adrenaline junkie bored with life.
Anyway, I am in a good place and I hope everything is going well with you!
Hey Val… I’m ok. I’ve finally had enough of that drama! His mask came completely off and what I saw is just disgusting!! I hope you’re good. Yes, when things are calm and good the do something outrageous and or hurtful because they don’t like calm… they are bored. I got tired of being disrespected and treated poorly. Working on me now.
Good for you! I am getting to that point too, not because his mask came off but because somehow I don’t feel that connected anymore. I could take him or leave him.
Yep… that’s where I am now. I can take or leave him but I’d prefer to leave him. At this point he’s only good for sex…. even that isn’t worth the nonsense that comes with it. This fool text me a few days ago with ” we have that connection”. Yeah right… the only connection he has with anyone is whatever he can use them for.
Haha. I like the sound of this. I’ve just started seeing someone else. It’s very early days but it’s the first time I’ve been interested in anyone else, so that’s a good sign. And I feel stable because narc has stopped doing the intermittent reinforcement thing. Ironic – he stops some of the worst narc behavior and I start disengaging. But I cannot end it because every time I do, I go back. I have to wait for him to end it or for it to fade away.
Yep… that’s basically what happened with me. It faded away, I got tired. If he ended it I felt so rejected and would beg him back. They love to be pursued and begged. I’ve finally realized that I’m so much better than to be treated like that!! He’s pathetic and I’m a PRIZE!!!
Yes you are!! I’ve ended it three times but he never has. If I end it, I will second guess myself and go back but if he ends it, I won’t give it a second thought. My weird psychology, I guess. I still think mine is on the spectrum and unable to process much emotional stuff. I’m not angry or anything. Just interested in my own changing reactions to his behavior.
Now I am angry because he’s doing it again. Just when I said that we could end it but we needed to talk about it, he disappears for three days and then doesn’t respond to an email from me. He hasn’t gone one day without contact in a month but just as I began to settle down, he started up again. I am trauma bonded and I think he is having problems with his wife (understandably). But that is not my problem.
Hi Val… how are you? I’m sorry that I’m just replying… a lot going on in my life,some good some not so good. I’m doing well and not communicating with the sociopath. How are things with your guy? You have to know by now that he will always do what he did… that’s apart of who he is. I swear to you that I still love that man but I just got tired!! Life is too short to deal with their bs!!! I’ve been keeping busy working, traveling, journaling and hanging out with friends. It’s helping although I think of him daily still. I’ll be so happy when I can go days without thinking about him.
Hi Cindy! Glad you are mostly doing well. At least I hope you are! Hopefully your memories/attachment will continue to fade. I suspect I will get tired too but I wish it would happen already, just as you wish you could not think about him. Mine has modified his behavior a lot but it’s like he has no intuition at all. If I ask him to do something, he will try to comply, but he doesn’t anticipate. We had a long face to face talk a few days ago. We haven’t talked like that since me met. He knows he’s weird and different. He cannot explain himself, except that time works differently for him. It’s past, he says. He only thinks about what’s coming up. He is oblivious. I made an appt with my therapist for today to figure out why I cannot ditch him 😉
Ugh I feel terrible now. We just ended it by mutual agreement and the sociopath went off to ‘try’ with his wife because he had a ‘good time’ with her for a few weeks. I am fine with it. I think he is doing the right thing.
BUT I alternate between anger at him for getting me into this and anger at myself for allowing it to happen. I feel SO guilty about his wife, even though he does not. As far as he is concerned, if it is over, it never happened. He does not get that lying by omission is just as bad as an outright lie – he thinks if he doesn’t say anything, it didn’t happen. Now I am left holding the bag and struggling with whether or not to tell her. Part of me thinks he wants her to know, which is why he drew me back in even after I knew he was married and trying to reconcile. Part of me thinks that he is petrified that I will tell.
But the bottom line is that I think his wife has a right to know. I just cannot bring myself to tell her because it feels too violent – like I would be dropping a ton of bricks on her head and that I am that ton of bricks. I have no right to do that but then I do not have the right to withhold information that affects her either. I tried to get him to see that he was doing the same thing to his wife that he did to me (lying), but he refused to see the parallels.
I am fine except for this huge thing weighing on me now. I cannot get any help for it. My therapist says to tell her but actually doing that is another story. I cannot bring myself to do it. I do not know where to turn so I am hoping that someone on this board will help!!
Hey Val… trust me when I tell you this: you’re not the first and his wife has knowledge of his prior affairs. They are notorious cheaters AND they are kind of sloppy. I told my ex spath’a wife… it was a different situation though because they were separated ( she lived in another country and because he cheated). If you want to tell her tell her but I would tell you to just walk away and never look back. I went back a few times just for sex. I did something that I’m proud of this week… I told him no! As a result he’s giving me the silent treatment. So sad. I’m ready to walk away now. He’s a waste of time ( minus amazing sex). Do whatever your heart tells you.
Hi Cindy! Thanks for responding and it’s good to hear from you. I am happy you were able to say no! It gives me hope because I’m also anxious that he will resurface. I hope I’ll also be able to say no. At least this time I know it’s impossible to innocently reach out. And I am more convinced than ever that he is a narc.
Yes his wife knows about at least one prior because she kicked him out. I never got the details and so do not know if there has been more than one; he only grudgingly admitted to one previous. But she thinks they’ve been reconciling this whole year. I don’t think she knows he’s a serial cheater because if she did it is unlikely that she’d have wanted to try to reconcile. That pains me.
Morally I feel that everyone has the right to transparency so they can make their own decisions but it took me awhile to see the parallels between my situation with him and hers. I think I thought I was special and then I realized that lying is his way of being in the world. It is not because he needed ME. It is because that is how he is with everyone. That was a big revelation for me.
I know it’s not my problem exactly – not my circus, not my monkeys – but I’ve been wrestling with this for a week. My concern is really doing the right thing so that she has the information she needs to decide whether her marriage is worth trying to save.
I guess there is no answer as to what the right thing is. I can’t exactly contact her and claim to be innocent because the second time around I wasn’t. Maybe that is my burden to bear…
I woke up this morning convinced that he has told his wife about me but he has lied and said we were only involved last year when they were separated, and that I am deluded. He’s done this in case I get in touch with her. I guess the best thing for me to do is nothing but I am just shocked that I am beginning to think the way he does. If I were to tell her, he’s made it so that she will not believe me. I don’t have much evidence – thousands of emails but all from a fake email (though she’d know it was him), details about their lives that I could only know if he had told me, a screen shot of him on a dating site, a few naughty pictures of body parts. That’s about it! I don’t have DNA evidence or anything :-). I don’t have pictures of the two of us together.
The thing is sweetheart – there’s no point. Even if it was worth the effort, for every lie you clarify , theres another lie that kicks you in the gut. They lie!!!! That’s how they got us in! They lied. They mirrored. They were literally your perfect man because they were the reflection of what you wanted.
But they lie.
They then lie to others to get themselves out of strife. They don’t care who goes under the bus.
I’m 2 years out of a 5 year affair. The first 18 mths were so wonderful I spent the next 3.5 yrs thinking I must be going nuts that all these things were not making sense. Forgiving or overlooking the most despicable lies!
Eventually he cheated on me ( was for a long time) and left me for her. They are having a surprise baby soon. Hes 48 she’s 43!! It still hurts and I miss my perfect bf of all those years ago
But back to you. His wife knows he lies! She’ll know he’s lying about you.
Walk away, head up, let that crazy bus drive off. You are worth so much more!!
Stay here and talk often – trust me it helps!!
Yes, they lie about the lies. Good point! Thanks!
They lie about EVERYTHING!!!
Hey Cindy how are you doing?
Hi Pos…. not good, but I’m determined. I recently went back to no contact but a couple days ago he emailed me. I didn’t want to open the email so I didn’t. I went to actually delete it but I saw the first sentence and it seemed harmless… he was basically saying he was going to leave me alone but the rest said ” for now… he would contact me soon… thanks for caring about him”. I was livid!!! WTH!! If that wasn’t bad enough I have reason to believe that he’s back with his ex-wife!! So he’s emailing me to tell me that he’s backing off for now ( because most likely he’s back with her) but basically saying to me I still hope that you’re around later when I want to see you!! I was livid!!! I cried myself to sleep with angry tears. How dare he!!! Today I have taken some drastic step to hopefully ensure that I will NEVER have any contact with him!!! I want my life back!! I want to feel good about myself again!! I want peace within! I’m so tired of inner turmoil because of this POS!!!
I am sorry to hear you are still going round the circle Cindy, how long has this been now? You know he can play this game with you forever, right? If you allow him. But it will mean that you will also deny yourself a loving and fulfilling relationship too. You are accepting scraps and settling, when you could have so much more.
Positivagirl…. I took great strides today to end this once and for all. He was already blocked from calling and texting now from email. I know his mother doesn’t approve of me or him seeing me , so I messaged her asking to talk to him and ask him to leave me alone. I am trying…. you of all people know it’s not that easy. I will admit I was weak for him… I could not be strong enough to resist him when he pursued me. Clearly I’m getting stronger now. I think I’ve put a lot things in place to hopefully ensure that he can’t get to me. If he can’t go through the regular channels: call/text/email he won’t go out of his way to contact me. Now is time for healing and rebuilding me.
I know how difficult it is Cindyt it isn’t normal to want to end a relationship with somebody that you love. I am going to be around from now on. I will be posting regularly too. This is a cat and mouse game. You know he lies to his mother and blames it all on you, says that you are the crazy one etc etc. The truth is that the longer you hang around him he can send you crazy. I know that I did almost lose my mind. I thought I was gone for good. I could barely string a sentence together.
This is why this site is so great!! Only people who have gone thru this understand. I frequently feel like I’m going crazy…. I feel like just dying just so I don’t feel this pain, confusion, worthlessnes. I fought back tears most of the day at work ( wasn’t a good day) but I was determined to end this torment and disrespect for me. I don’t care what he tells his mother about me…. I’m actually using her as an ally. I know he’s lied to her about not seeing me since November 2015, I sent her screenshots of him texting and emailing me asking to see me ( so he can’t lie). I’m happy that you will be around. I just learned today that I’m a victim of trauma bounding…. Jesus!!! What else can these people do to us?!!
I had trauma bonding and stockholm syndrome too. It took a really long time to break away. Breaking away physically was one thing. Breaking away psychologically, was quite another.
😢😥. I’m so tired of trying… life shouldn’t be this hard. I don’t think I’ll ever be the same, happy, or whole again. I feel so broken inside. I don’t really know what to do to stop the inner turmoil. I feel crazy most days… I present this pretty picture on the outside but inside is so much turmoil!
Is there anyway that you could get access to a therapist Cindy?
I’ve been in therapy for over a year now. I left her a message asking to come in this week. I’m sure she will reply tomorrow. She works everyday so I’m sure I’ll get in this week.
I found trauma bonding and Stockholm syndrome too when I was poking around on the internet trying to figure out why I could not let go. I even told him I was trauma bonded to him but since he doesn’t get emotions, it went right over his head.
Anyway, I am sorry to hear you are struggling so much Cindy, and I cannot believe that email! How twisted! Who thinks like that? (I know who does.) And you are right postivagirl that it’s difficult to leave someone you love. It doesn’t make sense to us normal people. Goes against all of our instincts.
I am now in a different country from mine. At least I think I am. He travels a lot and really could be anywhere. Here’s something amusing: this time last year I was where I am now – even in the same neighborhood. I thought I was 3000 miles away from him. But guess what? I was out with a friend one night for a late dinner and who pops up where I am? Yep. That’s when the worst of it started.
I have to laugh, though more out of despair than anything else.
Five weeks no contact! But done it before for close to 10, so until I get to 10 weeks and beyond, I won’t feel that I’ve accomplished anything.
I’m seriously considering finding another job… the agency is where we met, started seeing each other. It has too many memories. When I’m ok and happy it’s ok, doesn’t bother me… some days it affects me so much to be there… some days I fight back tears especially if I have to go to the floor/department that he used to work in. I think I would heal quicker if I didn’t have that daily reminder.
Cindy, I think about this issue too – reclaiming one’s space. Would you really escape him if you left your job? I would have to move out of my flat to escape the memories of mine. I think it is almost impossible with all of the electronic communications and social media, as well as physical space, to completely escape. Also, if you like your job maybe you should keep it because otherwise you will be letting him take that away from you too.
That said, I am feeling better now that I (think) I am 3000 miles away from him. But I will still have to go back, I will still have to live in the same place, and I will still be at the mercy of online communications. In the end it has to be more of a mental exercise than anything else. Reclaiming psychic as well as physical space.
Yes, I think getting another job will help me to move on…. yes, I will still think of him anywhere that I am BUT the job is where we met, visit each other’s offices, went to lunch daily. Some days it’s too much sadness to be there. Yes, we spent time at my apartment but that not where we met. Where I work has a beautiful rooftop deck…. we used to meet up there to talk out our problems or to have lunch. I can’t even go up there anymore. The problem with being at the job is that’s where we were the happiest together so it hurts when some of those memories come back. Yes I like where I work and I’ve given it a year. I think a new beginning won’t hurt.
I changed my job not long after ex socio left me. We used to have daily coffee, and I could see him drive into the car park when he arrived (every day), lots of phone calls, every Cafe was a place we went to , it was just too hard. Also I had stayed in a job that allowed me that flexibility and was not too hard for him to come to. So I changed – same company different area, very busy, totally consuming and no familiar haunts. Its helped a lot.
Having said thst though I have since forced myself to go to every single place I used yo go with him – either on my own or with a gf. Essential to face your demons and see those places as no longer a place you shared some special moments but in reality a place where I was fooled by more lies and fakeness
Gabrielle… I’m at work now and I just had to go on the floor and department that he worked in. It all reminded me of him… I pictured him at his desk, the halls,etc. It wasn’t too bad today because I’m feeling better but I think I would move past all the pain he’s inflicted on me.
Totally your call but if it’s a career move you were contemplating at some stage (as I was) doing it sooner rather than later isn’t a bad thing. I’m also in govt
Sounds like a good idea, then. I hope you can find something you like just as much.
I work for the US government… I can transfer to another agency.
I’ve said this before… he’s not your typical sociopath, not with me he isn’t. Now that he’s blocked from calling/texting or emailing me I doubt that he will go to any other lengths to get in touch with me. I’m not that important to him and he has other supply. All this time I made sure that he had access to me but now I’m ready to close this chapter so I’ve taken the steps. It hurts but allowing him to keep treating me like trash hurts way more!!
My ex Monstrr was similar. He actually blocked me and after nearly 5 years of seeing eachother every day, 20+ texts a day, declarations of love, weekends away, promises of a future…. He just ended it out if the blue, and then blocked me. He’ll respond politely if I contact him ( every few months because I’m weak) but it’s a brief polite exchange and then nothing
Gabrielle…. I know it hurts but try your best to move on. Mine will block me if we get into an argument or something like that. It never last long… in the past year it get less frequent ( the duration in which I’m blocked). It got to the point when I didn’t worry about it because I knew it would last a few days to a couple weeks. He will then email me when he wants to see me… if I reply or don’t he will unblock me then text me. Because HE wanted to see me. You may still hear from you ex but if I were you I would take this time to work on you. Good luck with everything.
It’s ok he has moved on (new gf and s surprise (he’s 46 she’s 43) baby on the way). I’ve been blocked on phone for 18mths but he responds to email.
Hes toxic and lies to all he’s a genuine sociopath. I’m better with him out of my life.
You sure are!!
I just recently discovered the truth about my husband (soon to be ex). He was lying to me for years. We got married three years ago. We’re both LDS and got married in the temple. Now that I look back, I realize how much he lied to me. He was so manipulative. During the course of our marriage, he could never ever find a job. The only time that he worked was when I got him a job at my place of work. He was always looking and could never find one. I actually felt sorry for him. I thought that maybe he couldn’t find a job because he was Brazilian. I am American, but I met him in Brazil and he came to the U.S. on a fiance visa. Now, I realize that he just used me to get here. He was so lazy, he played video games all day. He never slept and went to bed at like 8AM. He told me that he just had issues with sleep and had been that way his whole life. I just found out a month ago that he was lying to me about being in college. He lied to me for over a year. He would leave the house and pretend to go to school. He even spoke about his teachers, his tests, and told me he was getting Straight A’s in software engineering. I thought that he was so smart. When I questioned him about never doing any homework, he got so upset with me and told me that he did it at night when I was sleeping. He worked well at night supposedly. One time, I saw an email on his computer from a teacher saying they were dropping him because he had not done any work in the class. I confronted him and he got SO mad at me for not trusting him. He acted so concerned that his teacher was mistaken and told me he would go straighten it out with his teacher. He then told me I needed to work on my trust issues and should go to therapy. I literally just CANNOT get over all of the lies he told me. It was three years of marriage and three years of dating before that. All of it was lies. Not to even mention all of the verbal abuse, slamming doors, ignoring me, lack of empathy etc.
It is hard to get over what wasn’t real. As you were in love with a lie. I recall that I felt it was easier to believe the lie, than to believe that I was duped and conned. You were not stupid. As they really are masters at their game. Mine would go to fake jobs, he did not know people in my city, so would leave the house at 6am to go to his fake job. In reality he was sitting in the local library. He really did enjoy the ‘game’ and the fact that he really did not feel conscience to experience guilt, remorse or shame. Makes you wonder what he was doing all night until 8am? (probably online?)
After reading a couple of pages on the site, obviously trying to work out some things, the pain never fully dies, i find the gender role quite disturbing, as it is always a “he”. Another part of the information in how to deal with somebody that has a hidden agenda and lack of remorse is given to mirror the person, well i did that and in the end after 17 years of relationship, three children, i became the raving lunatic or as is put in some pages, narcissistic raging. With this in mind, i would suggest that emulating something that one despises, only creates monsters with which the deceiver can use to their advantage. I lost my three children as i became destitute due to psychological trauma, the social welfare putting the final nail in the coffin. I am of an age that has little hope of returning back to the so called dream in life. Once awakened, one can not forget and the scenario of my children living with their mother that objectifies everything which enhances her bank account and parasitic lifestyle only serves as a message to all that read this. Sociopaths are quite the norm nowadays as money becomes the glue in life. The government allows sociopathic mentality, as it fits very well into the business model of economics and the state skimming off taxes from people is just another form of this despicable behaviour. I thank the heavens for providing me with meditation and the freeing up of the attachment but know my children miss me and they are hurt by my no contact, which was not always so. i have tried previously, to rectify the problem, but it takes two to tango, and when one is without empathy and very intelligent, the odds are stacked against the empath. Thanks for the site, it is a piece of sanity in a very messed up world. Cain still kills Able and there is no end. Good luck to all and remember love is always within the heart.
No it isn’t ‘always he’ only posts from 2013 are he. it is 2017 now, 4 years later, all post have been written gender neutral after the first year when the blog became popular and was read by people other than the sociopath who was a man.
I am really sorry that you lost your children. It is the worst thing for any parent. Heartbreaking 😦 How old are your children?
Hi I wanted to share my story with a sociopath and deceptive narcissist I met 2 years ago and just recently cut off for good. This story is a bit long so bear with me, if you don’t mind. His name is Silas Kamara but when we first met he lied and told me his name was “Kamara Obegenwae”-he lied and said his last name was his first name and he completely fabricated a last name. I would later find out why he did this. I first met him When I was on my way from college class I had stopped to the store and picked up a few items. On my way to the bus stop I passed a guy who I initially thought was Jamaican because he had a really beautiful, tropical sounding accent . I walked to the bus stop and waited here for a few minutes and soon after the ” jamaican” guy came up behind me and asked me what time the bus was coming. I wasn’t really in a talkative mood so I told him I wasn’t sure and left it at that. However the guy started flirting with me, told me how beautiful I looked and asked me where I was on my way to. He and I began to talk more and I found out he was actually from Sierra Leone and we talked about astrology and traveling. I told him my birthday was January 3rd and that I’m a Capricorn and I found out he was a Virgo (Virgo men are my personal favorites and his birthday was September 5th). I already felt chemistry with him and after our bus came we talked and laughed on it like it was just the two of us and he asked could he walk me home. I said yes and I jokingly said he probably just wanted to find out where I live. He playfully said yes he did but little did I know it was actually serious. He walked me to my house we exchanged numbers and he called me when he got home and mentioned that he would be out of town for a couple weeks but as soon as he got back he wanted to take me out on a date. I said okay and we talked more over the next couple days. However on the second day of knowing him he called me that morning and told me that he was ” in love with me “. I laughed and told him he was a charmer but no one falls in love that fast. He restated that he was in love with me and complete seriousness and he told me that the reason why he felt the need to tell me was because he is a “romantic/sentimental type” and he felt he had known me forever. Obviously I didn’t take him seriously but odd behavior what set the tone for the remainder of our relationship. When he got back from his trip we met at the park by my house and talked for 2 hours when he asked can I come back to his house later (he lived in the same neighborhood as me) and he could cook dinner for me. I said okay and later on he returned and we walked to his house. I’m a dominatrix when it comes to kink and role-play so I asked him could I tie him up and he enthusiastically allowed me to do it to him. I pleasured him but I told him earlier that day that I wasn’t comfortable having sex with him just yet. However while he was still tied to the bed he had been so aroused that he said ” how are you going to do this to me?” meaning he felt that I had gotten him so turned on that I somehow owed him sex. I told him no because he also did not have a condom and even if I were going to change my mind I would not want to have sex without a condom because I do not want to get pregnant. I untied him and we made out for a bit and he started to give me a massage but then got on top of me and asked me “why I didn’t why trust him”. I told him it was nothing personal but that I just didn’t feel comfortable without a condom. However he persisted and begged me to let him have sex with me for “just 5 minutes” and he promised he would pull out. However 5 minutes became 20 minutes and he wound up nearly ejaculating inside of me. I was so scared and upset that I told him to take me home right then and there. I realized that what happened to me was not rape but I still felt like I had been coerced and pressured to having sex when I had no intention to do so. However I didn’t feel like I could confide in anyone and for the next two weeks I was so scared of getting pregnant so my period was delayed. Meanwhile Silas found a way to play the victim and ask why I stormed out when he wanted me to spend the night (we had never agreed to that) and he told me I owed him an apology. I told him I was scared so I didn’t owe him anything and he didn’t know how to take no for an answer. Eventually I forgave him but every time we met up he would try to find a way to try to coerce me into having unprotected sex (I never agreed to it again) and afterwards he would accuse me of “acting up” just because I wanted to be responsible with my body. I grew sick of his rude attitude and we stopped talking for a couple months however in January of 2016 we begin talking again and he would arrange to meet his house where we would have sex and he will cook for me afterwards. However I begin to notice this was a consistent pattern And he never would actually take me on dates. When I confronted her about this I asked him was he just using me for sex and if yes just to be honest about it (I have no problem having casual sex but he kept saying how much he loved me and wanted to be with me and felt that if he just wanted sex he should stop saying things like that and be honest.) however he told me the only reason why he hadn’t taken me out was because he had a low income job and had no time for money to take me anywhere special, or so he said. My intuition told me something wasn’t right and after doing some Google searches I found out that not only had he lied about not having a Facebook account, he lied about his name, and he was a novice pastor in his African congregation and ironically often gave sermons on abstinance and chasity (i’m not religious but I thought the hypocrisy was absurd). I also discovered that he frequently went on expensive outings and trips he paid for with various friends (even though he told me he never had money to go anywhere at the time). He lived a complete double life. About a month later Silas called me early in the morning because he ask could I come to his house that day and he said he had something he wanted to talk to me about and it was important. I told him that he could just tell me on the phone, however he said it was “big” and he needed to talk to me as soon as possible. I went to his house later that morning and he had made me a fruit platter and he asked me to come close to him so he could hold me and tell me what he wanted to talk to me about. I was nervous but I figured he was probably going to tell me that he was moving or something. He began by telling me that he’s been struggling with his job and his citizenship and he’s worried about losing his work permit legally and the only way to keep it is if he gets married. I felt a knot form in my stomach and then he proceeded to ask me if I could marry him so that he could legally keep his working visa. I was appalled and angry then I begin to cry and I told him that I felt used, and that what he wanted to do was illegal and that probably didn’t even realized how used and taken advantage of I felt. He quickly began to apologize and told me that he wanted to marry me anyway but he was waiting for the right time to ask in this situation was just the most convenient for him. He began to try to control me and coddle me and because of my vulnerable state we were intimate later (he knew how to push my buttons). However I told him no and I went home angry as I usually did with him. When I got home I began to ask myself why I put up with him when he always makes me so upset. One day a few weeks later while we were walking to his house a family friend who lived nearby had seen us and she called my dad and told him she was worried about me because the guy she saw me with (Silas) was, in her own words, a ” sexual predator and bad news”. She said she knew exactly who he was because he had propositioned her in the past and she also told me later on that she found out that he was under investigation for sexual assault on a woman close to my age and the best thing I could do is stay away from him for my own good. At first I thought it was a case of mistaken identity because Silas has shown me his background report from a work application when I confronted him on what my neighbor had told me about him, but then I thought that to how he had course pressure me into having sex with him the day we met and how he got on top of me and persisted that we do it and I began to have suspicions and worries. However we still maintained contact and he would always persist in asking me to marry him however towards the end of the year (December 2016) he told me that if I didn’t marry him he would find someone else to do it so he could keep his Visa. I told him that I had no intention on marrying him and I only believed in marrying for love. He insisted he loved me but I knew he was being deceptive and manipulative. In February of this year (2017) right before Valentine’s Day he had bought me a ring and formally proposed me with it. Admittedly I was flattered but I still refused his offer and reminded him that what he wanted to do was illegal. After that I didn’t hear from him for an entire month but one night I got a call from him and he was in a car talking and laughing with other people and he said he would call me again when he got home. Later on he revealed to me that he followed through with his plan to marry someone for his Visa and he paid a woman he had ust met the previous week to help him with his marriage scam. I can’t say I was surprised but then he asked could we still meet and have sex and that he still loved me and it was purely a marriage of convenience and that he was planning to divorce her after 10 months. Needless to say I was disgusted and I met up with him just so I could tell him off. He also told me that the woman he “married” already had a boyfriend which turned out to be another lie. She had a son and she looked old enough to be Silas’ mother. He would post pictures and social media the two of them on outings and dates (remember he had still been telling me that he did not have the money to take me out anywhere.) I felt awful because I realized I had merely been used for sex the entire time and while he tried to use me for marriage fraud and he successfully used his new “wife” for his schemes he still would take her to all the places he never took me (the only time we ever spent together was in his bed) and it made me feel awful. I felt like an unpaid prostitute for him all along, and what angered me is that if he only wanted casual sex he could have just been honest with me instead of feeding me lies and decieving me about so many things. He also kept changing his story because at first he said he and the woman were not romantically or sexually involved but then he said they were temporarily have been he changed his story again and said that they weren’t. I no longer believed a word he said. The last time I ever saw him was in July about a month ago he had come to my house crying in his car and apologizing because the woman he “married” would not sign over her assets to him and he was worried about losing his job because she wouldn’t sign all of the property papers. He had the audacity to ask me to sign a lease note one his apartment so he wouldn’t lose the room he rented out. Thoroughly disgusted, I told him I didn’t ever want to see him again and not to ever call me again. I found out that he and the woman are somehow on good terms, he still takes her everywhere and looks after her son, and I believe they now live together in a different County (possibly because his scam began to unravel and he was desperate for it to look legitimate or so he told me). I’m angry and hurt because I feel like I was used yet I gain nothing from it and all the things he should have done for me he does now for the other woman he scammed. I wish he would have never tried to get me emotionally involved because it could have saved me the heartache. If he would have just been about only wanting sex I would have happened to him but instead he played on my emotions and never once apologized for what he put me through. I feel its unfair because it seems like he gets to move on and be happy and do fun things and go on the all outings that he claimed he had no money for and he never paid for his deceit and lies and the marriage scam. He goes to his church and preaches to his congregation yet he has skeletons in his closet. He’s judgmental (he would often judge me for how I dress and say I’m inappropriate and “dress like a whore” right after having sex with me ironically). He would constantly make promises he never kept and pretends he’s so perfect and everyone falls for it. I’m just angry and trying to get over everything I went through with him. It’s hard each day I’m stronger and and make an effort move on.
I feel ur sadness and frustration. I just wanted to share something with u for better or for worse. I had a pattern that repeated itself many times over when it came to my choice of woman (I’m a heterosexual male). I kept getting involved with “damsels in distress that somehow became these female killer sharks once they had me worn down and reeled in. I wasn’t ready to move in with last one, so she insisted on “squating at my apartment,” knowing that I as a teacher knowing she had two teenage boys at home, would do what I had to do to get her back home: this included me starting to spend more nights there.
Once there the “if u don’t want to move in I’ll just see other people”
Hints started coming. To make a long story short, unmoved in and she took me complete hostage.
The moral of the story is this: even though she was a manipulative pain In The ass who harangued and coerced me into doing things (including buying her a car), she never held a gun to my head. The only thing I ever needed to do was admit to myself that I would miss the sex badly but would have to get used to life again without her pretty face in it. Thing was, like most hostage situations, the longer u remain captive, the more difficult it is to leave. The answer to that is don’t give these pariahs an inch once they give u that initial knot in ur gut. Cut them off immediately. Attractive or not, get the freak away from them. They will impair u once your hostage. They will confuse u with their lies and I. The end try to convince u it is u that is the bad acted.
So for me, to avoid doing further damage to myself, I had to change my pattern of letting women chose me. I now take the responsibility of chiding them
The thing is with a sociopath, that there are no signs that anything is wrong. On the surface everything appears to be normal. Or more than normal, it can appear to be perfect, heaven, soul mate connection. You would have no idea of the reality as it is done behind the scenes.
Normalcy: “white knight baiting”
“My ex husband is dangerous. men r stalking me. E and my two sons r scared to be in the house alone.” So I start to do sleep overs. her ex let’s himself in at 10pm at night. I’m good with people, but am physically imposing, so I can pull off diplomacy vs. confrontation pretty well. I greet him in the kitchen and ask him if it’s a good idea to be in the house knowing his wife and kids are scared of him. She chastises me for being rude to the father of her kids right infront of them. When I confront her would be stalkers, I find her having coffee with them in a diner the next day in a diner. When I meet the group they all look at me like the weirdo. I find out later she told them I was “controlling.” So, though having an sbusive ex and male stalkers could be a little quesionable, it isn’t necessarily when it comes to a beautiful woman. Those problems could be almost looked at as expected or “normal.” It’s also for a guy who is the lover to take on a protective role (especially when asked) . The part that is confusing is the way she would exploit those “normal” paradigms as a way to cause cognative dissonance in me. I could never be right, and would eventually become ostracized from the crowd we both knew because of her pathology and social humiliations. Once she had me hooked on the idea that I was a good lover,she began the process of dismantling my confidence in bed. Saying stuff like “black guys know how to dominate. It’s too bad u don’t,” I was emotionally destroyed by this sick tramp. Oh yeah, after moving out of my perfectly nice apartment into her home,I discovered it was in forclosure.
BUT, all this pain could’ve been avoided if I had just had enough stamina to pull away from her when she lured me in through sympathy in the beginning when she squared in my apartment because “she was scared to go home.” It never dawned on me (cuz I was getting layed every night..sorry but true) that the fact that she was ruthlessly leaving her sons in an unsafe environment while she slept peacefully at my apartment. And there might be a chance that she was just making it all up to get me to move in with her do she could control and dismantle me emotionally.
I guess if you had moved in, she would have planned for you to pay for her, and then you would have seen the sociopathic side? I know that a lot of victims of female sociopaths say how they use sex to lure their victims.
yeah I haven’t spoken to him since I cut him off over a month ago and of course on fb hes carrying on like nothing happened. Its like he has no conscience.
Hi Val… yes I’m struggling. It’s not so much that I love him, it’s the treatment. I just will never understand how people treat anyone like that… especially the ones who love them and treat them well. I know why the do it, it just hurts.
I don’t understand it either :-(. They are like androids in those science fiction films. They look like humans, talk like humans, but they are not humans!!
Hi everyone, I hope you are all good. I am reaching out because I am suddenly struggling with no contact!! It’s been two months and the only thing I’ve experienced is some online stalking. We are in different countries now and maybe because I think I have a handle on things and the anger has waned and there is never any closure I feel like reaching out. But I am determined NOT to do it this time because it was just as big a mess last time as it was the time before and the time before that. Maybe now I have learned my lesson. But why do I suddenly have this urge??
I just wanted to add that on the upside, my tolerance for assholes is very low these days. Somehow, though, I keep running into them. One guy has been taking me out on and off for two years – we’ve sort of danced around the idea of a relationship but have been friends. A few weeks ago he took me out, called it a ‘date’ and then ignored me for half the night. He seems to need a harem of admirers (another narcissist?) and I called him on it. Got fed up with his behavior, which is too bad because I would have liked to be friends but he can’t seem to get his head around that. I’ve never had problems like this before. I always met people I liked and had good relationships with. That part of my life seems to have ended. Am I attracting assholes now because of one sociopath?
I’ve just read your comment, and what you say resonated strongly with me.
Firstly, you ask if you are attracting the same sort of man because of your attraction to a sociopath. In my opinion, the answer to that is “No” – you are attracting similar types because of the person you are – almost certainly kind, caring, empathic and open.
The difference is that now you are aware of the danger signs and not taken in so easily or without question. Previously, you may well have made excuses for a man (“he’s trying to impress me because he’s nervous” or “we all tell little white lies to impress people sometimes”). Empathic people find it hard to accept someone is “all bad”, they look for reasons and try to exonerate the other person.
Your trust has been abused, you’ve been hurt and disappointed by a sociopath, probably over and over again, little wonder that you are wary about it happening again. If it feels wrong, it is wrong, I believe there is a very high percentage of the population who are narcissistic and sociopathic, years ago it would have been called something else “a womaniser, an egomaniac, a fraud, a liar and a cheat.” You are just tuned in now to the red flags, it will take time to trust again.
When you mentioned a “harem” it made my blood run cold. That is exactly what my last partner wanted. I sent him a song by Sarah Brightman and he was very excited that it was from an album called “Harem”. He joked about it, but I’d only just met him and didn’t realise the significance. Soon after, I realised that he had more than a hundred women friends on Facebook, some he had slept with just once, some he had never met but “dated” online. He was proud that they messaged him, and was angry when I objected to many who commented on our photos with remarks aimed at him, certainly not me.
Today, it’s all over the news about the death of Hugh Hefner, many jokes about his “harem” of Bunny girls. It struck me that it’s a peculiar form of narcissism when a man of 86 seems to believe that a beautiful model of 26 is attracted to him for himself alone. I knew that my ex-partner would have loved to be surrounded by a harem like that, because the narcissist is incapable of real emotion, and only feels brief and fleeting excitement either sexual or through power. They are like film sets – all convincing facade and hollow and empty behind.
I hope you find a decent man to rebuild your trust, Valerie. Trust has to be earned, not demanded, if someone is demanding it, be cautious!
Keep strong, and remember, you are more valuable than any sociopath could ever be.
Hi Lanalana5, Thank you for responding to me!! I’ve had a really rough day! The harem stuff, well, I never met any guy like the one who recently took me out on a date. For two years now he’s been coming onto me (on and off because we don’t live in the same city or even in the same country except for a few months a year) but he’s never actually made a move. When we’re together or communicating he is always mentioning other women. I couldn’t figure out why – does he want me to be like his sister and confide in me? Does he want me to compete with other women? I couldn’t figure it out. But your harem story, well, it sounds sort of like that except that I don’t think this guy has slept with anyone in years. He has this ex-girlfriend who works with him and always, always calls when he and I are together. Then he has to hide the fact that he’s with me even though nothing has happened with me!! We haven’t even kissed. Maybe he’s been using me to get his ex back? But we go for months and months without seeing each other, so I am not the best person if he’s trying to triangulate. I just did not get it at all so I called him on it. Thank goodness I did not get involved with him, right? I am grateful that he did not make a move.
I too have been watching the Hugh Hefner stuff with disgust. I like your film set analogy. I find real life much more interesting than fantasy life. Months ago I put something about preferring reality to fantasy on an online dating profile and my narc (not the harem guy, the guy I originally came to this site about – the one I was missing today! 🙂 ) stalked me on the dating site and messaged me about that line. At the time, he had told me not weeks before that he was reconciling with his wife. So yeah, they live in fantasy land because I guess real life is too boring. They are bored with themselves. They have no inner life. Hugh Hefner was able to make his fantasies come alive but most guys like that cannot.
Thank you again for your comment!
Hi again, Valerie,
I hope you have had a better few days. We all go up and down, it’s natural to want the comfort of loving, the picture these “charmers” paint is compelling, it’s so hard to believe that in the good times it was all lies, all fake, but it was.
Sometimes I think I must have imagined the things he said to me, but he also wrote them on Evernote, so I have the evidence in writing! Reading those notes now, the sudden change in his behaviour to me is incomprehensible. This is why we miss the person we thought we loved, because we struggle to believe that there wasn’t a grain of truth in it. We comfort ourselves by looking for reasons why they change, and even blame ourselves. We have to understand that there was no truth, it was all fake, a mirage.
Thinking about this man who takes you out and talks endlessly of other women, I can only presume that it’s an ego boost for him. My gut instinct tells me that his “ex girlfriend” is nothing of the sort, she’s very much in his life, could even be his wife. He probably gets a kick out of being with you when she calls him, a sort of power trip. Saying that he hasn’t had sex for two years is also a typical technique – it’s designed to lull you into a false sense of security. Your sympathy is roused by the confession, and he seems like the sort of man who appreciates women for themselves not just for sex. Don’t be fooled – it’s probably a calculated lie.
The narcissist in my life liked women in foreign countries, particularly South America where he had business links. He didn’t want someone to have access to him all the time, so he could travel between places picking and choosing. I pitied the women who followed him on Facebook, I don’t know if they all believed that they were special, but he’s a predator and they seemed blind to the fact. I’m not saying that everyone wants a full and committed relationship, but honesty is essential, and he lies to get what he wants. These men play games, they don’t care about the consequences. They erode your self worth, and laugh about it.
We all have to stand strongly on our own sense of right and wrong, my senses are deeply offended by dishonesty, and every time I am tempted to try to “make things right” with someone who has treated me with contempt, I remember that they are the ones who should ask for forgiveness – it won’t ever happen in the case of a sociopath, unless they want something more from you, until there is nothing left.
Everyone has their bad days, Valerie, but something good is just around the corner if you are true to yourself.
Hi Lana, Thanks for your comment. I’ve been keeping track of my moods because I cannot believe they are really about the narc. They are about something else – he is just a projection of something else.
The guy who takes me out (harem guy) – I’ve known him for a long time and we have a lot of friends in common. I know his family and all about the ex. It is what he says it is. He’s not involved with anyone. It’s more that he feels the need to pretend. He doesn’t want anything from me other than admiration. Once I called him out, he disappeared – same as narc!
Funny you should say that yours did not want people to have access to him all the time. Narc is like that too. He also travels a lot for work and would disappear during his travels from the very beginning. However, I will give him this: when I told him that I was having anxiety attacks, which is why I dumped him several times, he stayed in touch every single day for a month, including while traveling, until I was okay. He even did it beyond that and I had to tell him he could stop. (That’s the part of him that I loved – he’d comply, calm me down, tolerate my volatility.)
But he suddenly reverted to form and complained that everyone, including me, monitored him. Yet I never knew where he was or what he was doing and never asked because he was usually at work and I wouldn’t contact him outside of work hours, though he did me. He also ALWAYS asked what I was doing, where I was going, if my son was around, etc. So, the things he accused me of, he was doing to me. I didn’t mind because I’m not secretive and I do have an interesting life. But he has nothing to hide EITHER – there were no other women (except his wife – the first half of our relationship he lied to me; the second half was an affair) and I can tell from his sparse public Instagram page that he was truthful about his travels. Harem guy has nothing to hide either. But they both felt the need to turn things up a notch. Why? To pretend to be more complex/important/interesting than me?
I’ll tell you what it is: it is controlling behavior to put me in my place, which boosts their egos. It sounds like that’s what yours was doing too. So thanks again for your comments because they made me realize that both men have control issues!!
Thanks for your reply. I too have questioned over and over my own reactions. I have blamed hormones, upbringing, past experiences and even my own “nature”. I can be sure of one thing – the “narc” has never done that, because he doesn’t believe that he does anything wrong ever, despite a history of multiple broken relationships and having walked out on two sons by different mothers.
I must say, your chap sounds as if he did care about you during that month of your anxiety attack. Of course, in the early weeks of my relationship my narc was incredibly attentive – but in my case it was control. He made me produce a spreadsheet of all my assets, income and personal effects. He insisted I move into his house whilst he was away – it looked like caring, but it was control. I knew that it felt wrong, but I trusted him and even then blamed myself for being too insecure. When I was totally isolated in South Korea with him, his behaviour was bizarrely the opposite of what it had been. I found pages of notes about me in the apartment. They were notes about my childhood, my schooling, my children and previous relationships. Every time we had had conversations on Skype, and he had shown deep interest in my life, he had taken notes. It was a bit chilling. Why did he do that? In order to discover my “core wounds” and believe me, when he had bouts of extreme anger aimed at me for no reason, he was verbally abusive in a way calculated to demolish me. As an old friend once said ” there is method in their madness”. He did this because he thought I couldn’t escape, but I packed my bags and went home under very difficult circumstances – he was shocked. Then set out to utterly destroy me in any way he could.
Empathic people will always look at themselves to find blame.
My experience has destroyed my faith in my own judgment. I’ve always been open, trusting and tried to see the best in others. I hate now that I’m cynical and reluctant to have anyone in my life, even many friends.
I’ve questioned my behaviour; am I needy and demanding? Do I have unrealistic expectations? Am I naive? Am I a failure, as he liked to make me feel? (The total opposite of what he said at the start, when he admired my “intellect and unparalleled wit, my resilience and spirit.”)
As I said, I can guarantee that the narcs will never suffer this self doubt.
Some people comment that many of us here are just angry that a relationship has gone wrong and we feel that we are not to blame so want retribution. I’ve had relationships that ended, I never felt like this about it. I’m prepared to accept my own part in anything that goes wrong, but this is different, it’s destructive in a way that affects your whole emotional balance and the way you see the world.
Hi Lana, No, these are not normal relationships. People who have not been in one will not understand. I learned that very well. Just don’t listen to them. I actually figured out mine was disturbed by watching a TV show about a sociopathic killer. Though mine is not violent, I recognized a lot of things and a light bulb went off in my head. We are not wrong and we are not crazy.
I wouldn’t be surprised if mine took notes on me too. Several times he said things that he could not have known had he not been stalking me/doing his research. Or he would pretend not to know something that he did know. He did brazenly once stalk me after we had split up and he’d told me about his wife. I think he did it again about a month ago. In any case, I didn’t hide anything from him and I did not care what he knew about me. I don’t have any secrets and I wasn’t lying to him or to anyone else.
He did care about me and that was part of the problem. I managed to pierce his defenses. But he didn’t want to care. At first I was confused about his emotional unavailability (really pathological) and hot/cold behavior because I’d never experienced it before. I kept thinking it would resolve but every time we were close and things were calm he’d rock the boat. It got to the point where I’d prepare myself – anticipating the blow up after the closeness. He never deliberately or directly tried to make me feel like a failure, though of course I do feel like I failed in general in terms of the relationship. But I also know that I couldn’t have done anything differently because it was a dynamic.
He only blew up at me twice and both times were over email. Never to my face. But I have to say that both times were scary because he was otherwise so calm. The second time I went all cold and that was the beginning of the end for both of us. You left. Good for you! They did not destroy us.
My judgment took a beating too but there were good things about him and about yours too, otherwise we would not have stayed, right? So do not beat yourself up. These relationships are not entirely pathological. Just the parts that matter to their long term health are really problematic, to say the least. I think time heals, as does interacting with a lot of normal people. I’m glad you escaped. Mine is sort of in a bind because if he pulls any nonsense I am in a position to make a lot of trouble for him.
Thank you Valarie.
Hi Positivagirl, Lana helped me! Ours seem to have some similarities. Still struggling but keeping busy and it’s gotten better over the past few days…
It can really help, to hear someone else who understands your story. Or when you have encountered a similar type. Simply because your experiences can be pretty crazy. It helps that there is someone else who understands what really is quite inexplicable.
Yes, exactly! Especially about seemingly little things and weird behaviors that one has never encountered before.
Hi Valerie, you have helped me too! Thank you for that.
Positivagirl is right about sharing the same experience, I feel that other people, even those closest to me, suspect I might have “over-dramatised” my situation – or contributed to the way I was treated.
When you’ve been made to feel like the “problem” by someone you loved and trusted, made to question your own behaviour, been totally bewildered and baffled because you’ve just been loving and caring and can’t understand what’s happened, it’s easy to accept blame. Empathic people are quick to do this.
“We are both good people” my narc said to me, “and no one can take that away.” The arrogance of that statement from a man who had wrecked many lives and disappointed countless women. His elderly uncle told me about the wreckage he left behind him. (Only after I left.)
Their self assurance is breathtaking, they suffer no remorse, whereas we are left bereft. Thank goodness we can support each other here, the similarities of our experiences are a comfort.
Hi Lana, That’s good to know. The thing that struck me about yours was the secrecy and not wanting people to find him, because that was a big feature of my relationship. It’s very controlling, as I said. I actually dumped mine a month after I met him because of that behavior (first of 3 dumps). I set out to find out everything I could even before I knew he was married (last piece of the puzzle). I didn’t find anything worth being so weirdly secretive or distant about, though that continued even after the affair part started. Pretty standard family and professional situation from the outside. I did find it strange that once I had all of the information he didn’t run away. On the contrary, he relaxed and opened up. He even said he felt closer to me. Maybe because he wasn’t lying anymore. But I still do not have answers to so many small things – many odd behaviors.
After I called him out on his lying, he didn’t really apologize. He simply said “all I can do is be the best person I can be going forward.” Once he said “I really am a sweet guy.” Ha! Sounds like yours. They seem to worry about being considered bad apples. Hmmm. I wonder why…
I really think it’s insecurity, as I said in one of my earlier posts to you – that they have to pretend to be something they are not/more than they are, because their egos (real selves) really are quite fragile. The bad boy is the false self and the controlling behaviors happen so we don’t see their fragile selves.
In any case, my friends are all relieved that it’s over, though some suspect that it’s not — they’ve seen it end before over the past year and a half. But they see me as weak, so it’s my fault for letting it happen and then obsessing about it, whether or not he has a personality disorder. They will never understand and nor will your friends. xx
It’s so strange how the similarities keep emerging!
I think your assessment is spot on, fragile egos underneath the confidence and arrogance. Mine once said to me – “all my life I’ve given the impression that I’m intelligent, when really I think I’m a stupid person.” He said revealing things like this when he’d had a few drinks. He was intelligent, but narrow, and sought out creative types. When he first saw me I think he thought I was a dizzy blonde, sweet and gullible. He discovered that I was better read than him, it unsettled him. Despite being a lawyer, he said that my grasp of written English was better than his. In his vulnerable moments (I think I too pierced his armour) he admitted that he sometimes felt vulnerable. I believe because this unsettled him he turned very verbally abusive, in order to get the upper hand, crushing me that way because he could, I suppose I’m sensitive, who isn’t? Especially when you trust someone and believe that you love them.
You’re right about people not being able to understand the need to analyse. The effect of their behaviour is baffling, bewildering, the normal human response is to try to understand and rationalise. Yes, I walked away, almost ran actually, and eventually I went “no contact” – not only with him but also his family members whom I really liked. I felt it was necessary to my peace of mind, I didn’t want to hear about his new conquest, or have to explain events to people who may think they understand, when really you have to be in the thick of it to truly understand. I know that he went to some trouble to try to devalue me to anyone who would listen, even though the facts spoke for themselves.
Your relationship sounds equally complex. The fact is they put on a show to the outside world to make everything appear wonderful and sincere. This makes you look crazy when you drop them. If you start trying to explain to people around you, a lot of it sounds trivial, as you say, small, inexplicable things. Emotional bruises don’t show like black eyes. That’s why I write about it, I can have my say in my blog, and people can decide if I was right or wrong. Because that is the hardest part – that little doubting voice inside which whispers “was it me?”.
Someone said to me only yesterday, “you must have been very hurt to leave such a remote foreign place in the way that you did.”
“No” I replied “I was angry” – and this is true, I was absolutely furious that he could treat me so appallingly when I had thrown my heart and soul into loving him, and had defended him to very cynical and worried family and friends.
Yes, you are right, Valerie, they are little, frightened children underneath, terrified that someone will find them out and reveal their pathetic inner self. You did that, and so did I, and in order to put the walls back up, my narc had to hurl all the vitriol he could find in my direction, in an attempt to floor me and so rebuild himself.
You must do what you feel is right for you, Valerie, do not listen to people who do not truly understand. I have found your analysis revealing and it’s good to know that someone else seeks answers in this maze of enigma….Lana x
Lana, I have to laugh because the more you tell me, the more it sounds like we were with the same person. Mine is very, very left brained. He thought I was a hippie/free love type whereas he is in finance. Weirdly, he also lived in South America for many years. We’re both expats (from different but similar and geographically close countries). But he’s had a very stereotypical upper middle class adult life while I rejected all of that. We both have higher degrees – my degree higher than his but he has two of them. So I’d say we are both very smart/well educated, and that was part of the attraction – that and similar senses of humor.
BUT he could NOT for the life of him understand my writing. He’d say it was “beautiful,” “sweet,” “thoughtful,” etc but he would never respond to it. It was too emotionally complex, too many clauses, too convoluted. He’d focus on one sentence and make it self-referential – he’d say it was like “reading Chinese.” Very strange that he was so intelligent but could not see the bigger picture through the written word.
I wondered about this because he’s very verbal – he just cannot write fluidly – he’s very curt – or understand written communication. He wouldn’t answer even simple written questions (face to face he would). It caused tons of problems because it felt like he was dismissing or willfully ignoring me. I started reading up about Aspergers because often I thought that’s what he had – I still do, partly, except he is maybe a bit too calculating. In any case, one of the signs is a lack of empathy – similar to a narcissist, right? In fact, it’s often difficult to tell the two apart. But I discovered that Aspies have a serious problem with “social language.” They are very literal, do not understand nuance or metaphor, etc. Language does not have the richness for them that it has for people not on the spectrum, and they have particular problems with written language. Sounds a bit like your lawyer saying your grasp of written English was better than his and feeling inadequate for it.
In any case, most of us – once we are adults – are pretty certain of our choices, likes and dislikes, have reasons for taking the paths we have taken, etc. They are missing something – they want what they are not because they have a void – they haven’t made a choice to be the way they are. It’s just how they are. At the same time, what they want scares them. We are braver than they are.
And yes, on the surface mine is just a story of someone who got involved with a married man and got burned. But that’s not what happened at all!! I didn’t even want him to leave his wife!! Certainly not for me. I just wanted a relatively uncomplicated, affectionate, fun relationship but he couldn’t do that because “affection,” “fun” and “uncomplicated” are not in his vocabulary. “Control,” “twisting things,” and “complicating things” are because he is bored and I am not. Narcissists cause chaos. That is what they do.
People think they know what happened because of the surface story. Sigh.
I hope we can both get past our anger and feeling like it was us. It wasn’t. I’m sure we both tried everything.
And just to add that mine did the same thing with the vulnerability. I used to tell him that it was okay to have feelings and to express them, but every time he almost did – every time we got close – he’d violently push me away (not physically but emotionally). He’d cause chaos to get the upper hand. Just like yours. I trusted mine with my life too so it was as good as being hit. That’s why we feel bruised.
This is amazing, Valerie, I cannot tell you the relief I feel, because you are describing the same situation, or one so close as to have incredible similarities.
I’m afraid I “accused” him of being autistic. His 16 year old son has been diagnosed and has been prescribed Ritalin. Several things led me to this conclusion, rightly or wrongly. He has “obsessions” – woodwork, book binding, cycling, sailing, collecting objets trouve, all these passions are short lived. He spends a lot of money pursuing them and the effects (a boat, a workshop, various bicycles) lie languishing and rotting. He is horribly untidy, and his home has piles of things (especially rocks and bits of tree stumps) lying around anywhere, gathering dust. He wanted me to sort and tidy this house when he was away (I have an antiques and interior design background). He told me to throw everything away, including all his clothes if I thought them unsuitable. Of course, I didn’t (we’d only just met) but I did work hard to sort, clean and tidy. His Uncle told me that these enthusiasms don’t last long, and so it was with women, of course he made me believe that I was different.
As for the literary side of things, I completely empathise with your description. I have written poetry since I was a child, I suppose I’m a bit snobbish about poetry, I also keep quiet about it because little rhymes and ditties are not my thing, so many people just don’t get it. To me it is like music, the intricacies of language fascinate me, always have.
He claimed, right from the beginning, that he wanted me to “teach” him about poetry. I was taken aback, he went to a top university, surely he had some background knowledge? Apparently not. He said he’d never understood Shakespeare either. I wrote several poems for him over the course of our short relationship, he couldn’t understand them at all, even though they were straightforward, I explained that he should absorb them and not try to analyse. He couldn’t do it.
Whenever he sent a text, it would be incredibly sloppy, misspelled, sometimes I joked that it was like a cypher I had to unravel! This happened even when we were splitting up and he should have been more thoughtful about language as it was clear he was trying very hard not to “give anything away” – just like a lawyer in fact. The complete opposite of his Love bombing just weeks earlier, as you may imagine.
The other thing that puzzled me was something he said right at the start about music – he sent me songs that he liked and early jazz, but he told me that he never could listen to or understand song lyrics. It was just “music” – the words were lost to him, even in a meaningful song. I looked this up at the time, I suppose it was a red flag of sorts. It’s significance became stronger when added to other aspects of his behaviour that I later discovered.
I have studied psychology, and I sometimes think that I study too much! Bewildering behaviour that affects your life in this way is hard to overlook, I have a craving to comprehend – and I’ve come to a conclusion, his behaviour is dictated by some imbalance, whether that is physical, behavioural or just a personality disorder. He will continue to behave in the same way, despite occasional self exploration, including some diary type entries on Evernote (another enthusiasm that only lasted a couple of weeks) – by mistake he shared with me some notes from years ago which showed that others had complained often about his “lack of consideration” and past girlfriends had even thrown their drinks at him! He couldn’t admit any blame of course, but commented that his life had been “bagunca” which is Portuguese for a mish-mash, he speaks fluent Portuguese, and is adept at languages. In this revealing comment he says that he has never stuck at anything long enough to master it, and that remark covers his personal relationships, although he doesn’t make the connection.
I think he saw in me a person who could get to the core of his troubled inner life, but when I began to expose it, and wish for a response, itwas just too uncomfortable and he realised he preferred to carry on in the same old way. He’s like a little boy in a sweet shop, dipping his hand in every jar, the Internet has made this easy and the whole world is his playground. It is us, the people who care in a deeper way, who end up chewed up and spat out……
Lana, I used to embed song lyrics in my emails, make references to lyrics, and send links. I don’t think he ever got one of them or listened to anything I sent. He also sailed because someone told him he needed a hobby. One of the things in the collections you mention is one of his professional specializations. He has a very left brained daughter with interpersonal problems. There are no people in his Instagram (very sparse), he doesn’t communicate with anyone who comments (so it wasn’t me – he does the same thing to everyone), and all of his pictures focus on the sky. Literally all of them. Even if something else is in the picture, the sky takes up three quarters of it. That is curious to me. Maybe you have some insights. When I told him he was like two different people, he responded that I was not the first to say that. It’s maddening. I did ask him if he was on the spectrum but he did not know what I was talking about. Getting angry is sort of pointless, right? I mean if it is what we think it is, it might be hurtful but it’s a bit out of their control. They simply are not self-aware enough to make any changes and they cannot recognize what it is they need to change. They do not know what empathy is. I think I said above somewhere that they are like humans, but they are not humans. They are androids!!! xx
Believe it or not, I forgot to mention the photography! A friend pointed out to me that photography is a very solitary pursuit, and indeed I spent many times standing silently waiting, in some remote woodland or during a walk, whilst he played around with light and shadows. I also love photography, but it is a selfish way to spend time with someone, ignoring them and expecting them to keep still and silent whilst you follow your “art”.
Interesting about the sky pictures, I can only imagine that ever changing cloudscapes hold an interest, or maybe it’s a sort of yearning for the unknown blue yonder. Often the sky is empty of living things, it is an uninterrupted view, it is, in that way, uncomplicated. Again, that is a sort of obsession or fixation.
Total lack of empathy in letting you down when you were supposed to meet. It’s just completely one-sided. Gratification from a new source of supply, so cold, callous disregard for the previous interest. They treat us like robots! As if we should just accept and “move on” – a popular phrase of my narc. When I pointed out that when you really care about someone, and it all goes wrong, you can’t just “move on” without a care, it’s too painful. They can get their thrill with the next one,without a care; zero remorse, zero conscience.
Yes, you are right about anger being pointless, it was obvious to me that he had not a jot of feeling, how can you argue with that? I pointed out that his lack of response was abnormal, but I doubt he cared or even understood. I only know that we are the lucky ones, yes we can be hurt, but we can feel passion and love of all kinds, something they cannot feel, only imitate, locked into a world where they are constantly searching.
Hi Lana, Yes, it was a really shitty thing to do but at the time I did not know why he had canceled and we hadn’t seen each other in four months. I mentioned it later and he stopped that sort of thing. That he was willing to change made me think that he had no idea what he had done. It simply did not register. He didn’t cut me off or replace me even after he did that. In fact, I cut him off but he reached out a month later. He angers and frustrates me but he doesn’t experience things the way I do. Sure part of that is about empathy but it’s also that he’s just wired completely differently – a robot. My world is a lot more complex, just as you wrote. He once said to me ‘I am not a machine.’ I said, ‘but you act like one!!’ Ha.
He’s a terrible photographer, by the way. Really bad. I think he only does it to say ‘look – I’m not lying! I am where I say I am.” The sky thing, well, it made me think that he should have been an astronaut or a pilot. He’s always seeking an escape and he’s always in planes.
Hi Valerie, you make some very interesting and vital observations in your comments, that completely sum up so many of our shared experiences.
The point about these men being “wired differently”, it’s because of this that we cannot reason with them, explain our feelings, and expect them to be understood properly. I have written small essays (at his request) explaining circumstances, emotions and the reasons why I felt so upset, sidelined, neglected or overlooked. This was obvious to others around us, not just to me. He couldn’t see it at all, blamed me, then would reply to my detailed (and balanced) essay with two words, such as “thank you”. How frustrating is that! He never addressed a single point in anything I wrote or said, he only picked out good phrases that referred to him, or parts where I expressed affection or gratitude.
They cannot change, they don’t want to, they don’t think they need to, so the advice for survival is “walk away”.
Otherwise, you will be embroiled in a constant, frustrating battle to make your viewpoint understood and responded to. It’s never going to happen.
The other important point you highlight is that when you see through this lack of reasoned response to the person underneath, you may like them very much. This is why perhaps, we do battle to get through to them!
If there is a calculated deceit, that is different, and yet, empathic people will try to understand and make the best of it. Until they become totally undermined or worse.
It explains the cat and mouse stories of so many of us, but the underlying message is clear – you cannot reason with, have a balanced debate, rationalise or emotionally educate someone whose mind and character are fixed. You can choose to overlook the bad things and tolerate the frustration – but if it Is bringing you low you should think of yourself. Self-sacrifice has few rewards, except for others.
There could be multiple reasons for the destructive behaviour outlined in posts here – autism, frontal lobe damage, personality disorder or just plain bad people doing bad things because they can.
In the end, we as individuals have to make a stark choice – stand up for ourselves and realise that we can’t “fix” everything and everyone; or get lost, damaged and dreadfully hurt in the struggle.
Everyone wants to be loved but continuous sacrifice without return is NOT LOVE – it is fault on both sides.
I wish everyone here the strength to know what is right, and to find the love that they truly deserve.
Your sense of freedom is amazing, Valerie, I find it inspiring, I am trying hard to be more like that myself!
Hi Lana, Yes, in the end we cannot reason with them and we cannot make them understand, no matter what it is that causes them to be the way they are.
Funny that yours only responded to the parts of your writing about him and positive – that’s what mine would do too. I could write pages and get one line back that referred to something about him. On empathy: once I was telling him about a difficult situation at work and he made it totally self-referential. In a weird way. It was an awkward logic. Then he’d say things like ‘I know what it’s like to be hurt,’ as if he was not the one doing the hurting. Erghh. Maddening. But in his way he was trying to empathize. Same as he would try to comply if I asked him to make small changes to his behavior. He’d make an effort for awhile. So yes, there is something like a real human underneath the android stuff but so damaged that it cannot come to the surface. It’s sad.
After that month in which he was in touch every day I began to disengage because I wasn’t getting the intermittent reinforcement anymore. I was almost ready to end it. But then he reverted, I got sucked back in (so I know there is something wrong with the way I respond to him), and it got to the point where I wanted to tell his wife to keep him away from me and on a damned leash. I once wrote him an email ‘please let me go!’. But he wouldn’t until his interests were being served. Again the empathy deficit.
This conversation has been really helpful because while I can see bits of similar situations in some of the other posts, I do think ours are twins!! And that you and I think similarly. Again, we’re not wrong. I am pretty confident about my abilities to read people. And I am like a dog with a bone. I leave no stone unturned and I can be obsessive! 🙂 Taking the mystery out of these situations is how we get closure. I hope we both get there 100% soon!
I couldn’t agree more, Valerie, I sometimes think that I am obsessive in wanting to get to the heart of things.
Something very strange has happened today, a friend showed me his Facebook profile, I have blocked him so I can’t see. I have avoided all conversation about him as I believe it is important to recover. However, sometimes it just gets the better of me and I have a burning curiosity to see if anything has changed. A few days ago he posted on FB a very odd message, it was how he now realised that aspects of his life have been out of his control and yet he must take responsibility for them. Things that have happened to him are not directly his fault, but he is involved in them, therefore he can’t be separated from them. I only read it twice, it was very enigmatic. I had the impression that something has happened to make him change his view of his life. Maybe he has developed an important relationship with his new girlfriend, maybe he has tried to improve for that relationship. I wondered whether my letter about his Narcissistic Personality Disorder and possible autistic tendencies had an impact and he has sought a professional diagnosis.
I want to know more, but, on the other hand, I don’t want to be involved.
If it is true, and I was correct, it gives me no satisfaction. It doesn’t actually undo the emotional harm he did to me.
Getting an answer, of sorts, doesn’t solve all problems.
Perhaps there is an element of fatalism that these men come into our lives, for us to reach a clearer understanding of them and ourselves.
I feel it has drawn a line under my experience, and hopefully, I can view it as a lesson learned.
I would say that he is playing the role for someone in his life. Saying what she wants to hear. It is affirmation he is still the same person.
Interesting that you should write that, Positivagirl, because every time I see something that mine has written or posted it always strikes me that it is designed to send a message. I think about who his audience is – who he is trying to trick or convince. Many times I thought we were getting somewhere but then he’d duck a question or literally leave a conversation so as not to have to engage on that level and about himself. Whatever is hidden and authentic only comes to the surface inadvertently. Nothing is ever deliberately introspective. There is no self-analysis with them. I ended up telling mine that I didn’t think he was capable of feeling badly, though I suppose feeling sorry for himself is what he considers feeling badly!
I have been searching. I wrote a post about this. It had photo of a camera on it, I can’t find it. Either wordpress has deleted it, or it was placed back into draft. I will try to find it for you.
Okay thank you
Hi Lana, I had to search around a bit to find our conversation but I just wanted to check in, find out how you are, and tell you about the next chapter, in case it helps you.
I came back home and after waiting two months, which was six months no contact with him, I sent him an email apologizing for my part because I did a few things I wasn’t proud of. My therapist thought it would be empowering. That is, instead of writing to his wife and spilling the beans, I wrote to him. The email was short, apologetic, kind. No flirting, no enticement, no expectations.
Well what do you know but that he wants to resume our affair. I told you that every time I’d see something from him posted on social media I would just know that it was designed to send a message. Nothing I saw was authentic – or it was authentic in the sense that I could tell that he was just going through the motions. He never commits to anyone. Not to me, not to his wife. My rational mind thought that six months would be enough to get him back on track with her, which is what he said he wanted. But nope. Nothing has changed.
In any case, I am not interested in having an affair anymore. Whether I would want to be with him if he were single is another question, but I think I am a completely different person than I was last year and wouldn’t be interested in him either. We still have a very strong attraction to each other (we saw each other once — it’s been less than two weeks since we resumed contact) but something inside me has changed.
I am in the position of power now because he is waiting on me to agree to resuming the affair. I’ve written an email telling him that I don’t want it. That if he stays in his marriage, he’ll find another affair partner. If he leaves it he is free to contact me but I won’t be in any kind of shallow or fake relationship with him, even as friends. Once again I have expended a lot of brain energy on this but I am sleeping really well and I don’t wake up when his 5:30 a.m. emails arrive anymore.
Hope you’re good. xx
Hi Valerie! I’m fine, thank you. I suddenly thought about you a few days ago, wondering how you were getting on.
I am interested that you say that you are empowered, I would say “be very careful” – feelings can remain dormant, they can jump up and surprise you. It reads as if you do have feelings for him, understandably, and believe that you can call the shots. I’m not sure about that. If he has a track record as a liar and deceiver, he will be good at it, practised. He’s not going to suddenly change. Even if he did leave his wife, enter into a committed relationship with you, could you trust him? Or does he get a kick from the illicit? Would the situation be reversed? Would you be deceived like his wife?
I fully understand your need to contact him and explain a few things. It’s an overwhelming urge for caring people, to put the situation straight, make everything smooth and level. But has he apologised or admitted any fault?
I hope it works out for you, maybe you do have something special between you and that is why you keep being pulled together like magnets.
Strangely, I was reading some notes tonight on Evernote. I wrote them exactly a year ago. It had been J’s idea that we should keep a sort of mutual “diary” of our thoughts, as we were separated before he flew me to Korea to be with him. I was astonished at what I had written. I had no memory of it. I said that I felt that I was a chess piece being pushed around on a board, with other women as pieces all around me. They were static, because he had discarded them. The game was being played with me. I actually used the word “discarded” and said that I was worried the same thing would happen to me. Reading his messages and notes to me, there was no hint of anything that made me feel that way, it was purely little bits of knowledge that I acquired whilst living (at his insistence) in his house, and remarks that his elderly uncle had made to me. Every time, he soothed and reassured me, every time he swore undying love for me, and told me about his vulnerabilities and his need for me, his reliance on me. His fear that I would reject him.
I now believe that he had already found his next target. He was certainly looking. My point is, there was absolutely no way anyone reading what he wrote a year ago could have imagined that. Least of all me. It was only a matter of weeks later that he became the absolute reverse of this “loving and devoted” man. He was monstrously selfish, arrogant & offensive.
I talk a lot in my pieces on Evernote about trust, I confide all the secrets of my heart to explain my insecurities – I make excuses for him, I am clearly convinced that I can make him happy.
I’m telling you this (probably repeating myself!) because time blurs the truth. If I hadn’t written those things at that time, I would never have recalled the full picture now. The human mind is self defensively selective about the information we retain.
In short, I wonder if you are selecting, subconsciously, the bits of your relationship that still appeal and forgetting the manipulation and the deception. This is why I say “be careful” – it is easy to be sucked in again and relive those exhilarating feelings. At those times you are not in control, no matter how much you believe you are.
I hope it works out as you hope, Valerie, I really hope that you are ok. Xx
Hi Lana, I am pretty sure I am okay. I not only do not want to be in an affair anymore. I wouldn’t want to be with him if he were single either because he’s not trustworthy, as you point out, and he’s superficial as well. We have a few things between us – a powerful chemistry, intellectual attraction – but this latest round has shown me once and for all that he lives in limbo land. Six months ago he was a few months into reconciling with his wife and seemed pretty adamant that that was what he wanted. So once again I was surprised when he wanted me back. He didn’t apologize for anything. Nor did he ask me what I had been up to the past six months. I didn’t ask him either. We just picked up right where we left off and caught up a bit when we saw each other. He ‘love bombed’ me for about a week and then started to lighten up (withdraw). He says it’s work stress and he wants to make sure I am okay to get reinvolved, so he doesn’t want to overdo it. But I’m not reacting the way I used to, which would be to demand more, to ask what was wrong, to try to make him be present. I simply don’t care that much anymore.
This time I know that he’s had plenty of time to shit or get off the pot, so to speak, and he hasn’t done either. So no, I won’t get back into an affair and he won’t leave his wife. That’s the way he lives his life. I’ve been very standoffish and refuse to get into long email conversations again. I don’t wake at 5:30 a.m. anymore to his emails, and I respond lightly when he contacts me. I do not need him anymore. I desire him, but I don’t need him. The only thing that worries me is that I’ll want to tell him to his face and he will end up disarming me.
I wanted to point out to you that whatever these guys do has secondary motivations. I read very accurately what I’ve seen on Instagram. I don’t even look at it anymore. He is never present, even when he is in a picture with his wife. I can read his body language. I see what they do and how much time they spend apart. I can also read her pretty well at this point, as I’ve been doing it for awhile now. I had just told my therapist all this before I contacted him and I was right. He’s not fully committed to anyone. You were a chess piece and so am I. The difference is that I am probably the only one in my situation that sees the bigger picture now. His wife doesn’t know about me and he doesn’t know that I can follow both of them on Instagram and so know that he is not happy and never will be. I will never be able to make him happy. No one can. So, he can have his security and I’ll take my freedom. xx
Hi again Lana, Hope you are doing well. I just wanted to give you an update, including my thoughts. It all might help you.
Interestingly, mine won’t leave me alone now that I’ve told him that I don’t want to continue or even be in contact. He is moving in about five months and his ‘excuse’ on the surface is to keep me updated on his job search, even though I’ve told him that my decision does not rest on whether he moves or not.
Last weekend he emailed all weekend from home (unusual). He had received some unwelcome news so I was supportive and friendly, not flirtatious at all. But he suddenly slid into sexual innuendo – maybe he misinterpreted. Still, I didn’t respond. I left the conversation without even a goodbye. That didn’t stop him. Yesterday he contacted me at 6:00 a.m. to tell me where he was with the search, even though I have not asked. He only wrote a few words and I wrote back asking if it meant that I would be moving to X city. I was joking but what I WAS conveying is that he does not see me as a separate person to him. He understood because he laughed.
Because he won’t take no for an answer, I finally realized that ALL of his behavior is oppositional. Last year I was very anxious and it was easy to blame myself for being demanding, needing constant reassurance, etc. This year I am completely calm and content. He doesn’t ruffle my feathers at all. Still, I understand now that if I acquiesce, he withdraws. If I withdraw, he comes after me. And I am not the only one, of course. When he was separated he lived in limbo and hovered around his wife. When she decided she wanted to reconcile, he wanted to have an affair with me (we had already been involved). Last summer he ended our relationship but SO DID I. It was mutual. He creeped me online for the whole six months we were not in contact. Now that I have again backed out and it has been solely my decision, he is in limbo and hovering with me. It’s as if his wife and I are his two arms and he cannot survive without both of us in our proper places (chess pieces!).
He shows so many signs of Asperger syndrome, from having to control his environment to being ‘mind blind,’ not empathetic, misunderstanding social cues, not able to read my writing, very attached to routine, etc. He has narcissistic and sociopathic traits, but is not deliberately manipulative or malignant. He is surprised when I am hurt. He’s more like a little kid who needs the steadiness the ‘adults’ in his life provide in order to navigate the world.
I feel fine. Somewhat amused. We are both weirdly attached to each other. It’s not just the intense chemistry. I think it’s because he thinks I AM him and I allowed that to happen. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he did expect me to move to X city, and I wouldn’t surprise myself if I actually did move. But then I also wouldn’t be surprised if he begged me to move, I moved, and he then completely ignored or turned on me! Maybe you can relate to all of this.
I now know mostly what triggers the oppositional behavior but I don’t know what the mental processes are or how to handle it. Most people want to know what they have in common with someone else. They want to be on the same page about decisions, etc. It is what one would expect of another human being. This is the complete opposite to that! Of course it is very controlling but I think it’s more about himself than about other people.
Hope this gives you a bit more insight into your ex and that whole experience.
Lana, I just saw the second part of your post. Mine also met someone else while I was away last year and dumped me. He canceled a meet up hours before we were to see each other (he was visiting the city where I was at the time). Nothing happened between them – it was an ’emotional’ thing. I think he told her he was going back to his wife, and we patched up our relationship a few months later. I came to understand that this other woman (the wife is another story) was a fantasy. They are fantasists. That’s part of the problem. Who can live up to the fantasies of a fantasist? Who can keep track of the lies? One reason I didn’t mind having in affair is that I knew he wasn’t cheating on me, except with his wife! Ha! He knew that if I found out he cheated on ME, there would be hell to pay. xx
I meant to add, Valerie, that I didn’t set out to “change” this man, I just wanted to understand why he himself changed so dramatically and illogically. He found me, I wasn’t looking for a relationship, he literally walked up to me and captured me. Like you, I’m open and completely honest, he knew absolutely everything about me, he wanted to read my blog, I know he did that straight away. He knew I’d had a difficult few years, that I was emotionally vulnerable, he represented himself as my “protector”. He told many people, even in emails to colleagues that I was his “fiancé”. So when he started to treat me virtually overnight with indifference and irritation, I couldn’t make sense of it. I thought he must have met someone else, when I asked him, quietly and calmly, he went into an utter rage and accused me of paranoia. Now I realise that he had met someone online, the woman he later described to me (only two weeks after I left) with whom he was having “a Wonderful and totally fulfilling relationship”. He hadn’t even met her at this point. He denied absolutely that he ever even thought of anyone else. Clearly untrue.
The madness of being accused in this way of paranoia, when all the time he knew that I was right, is hard to comprehend.
Add to that the vulnerable state I was in when he swept me up, and he should have realised that he might have destroyed me. He didn’t care.
This is what led me to examine his behaviour; of course, he made a misjudgment, I must be resilient, and I’ve got a marvellous (though exasperated) set of family and friends.
This is why your experience is so valuable to me, we just want to understand what motivates these men, they’re not unloveable, but they are almost impossible to live with, they pull you in and then push you away. Or, we leave them, because we can see how inexplicably damaging they are.
Just found out I am dating a sociopath. He has all the characteristics and has been diagnosed as a sociopath too. He’s been to psychologists and neurologists. But it doesn’t change who he is. Today I discovered that I don’t know anything about him. Three years and it was all lie. He even lied about his education, his parents, how he was brought up, and even where he was born. I know nothing of him. And it’s terrifying. But at the same time I miss and love the man I knew, but I know he doesn’t exist.
Thank you for your comment. This is a difficult time. You yearn for the person that they sold to you, but this was a fabrication, and almost certainly had no bearing on who he is.
I recall in the very beginning, I found this poem. It was an accurate reflection of how I felt, and what I saw.
Everything that comes out your mouth is hot and black like treacle,
Never once have you said anything other than anything deceitful.
You’re poisonous and toxic, dangerous and deceptive,
Consuming all around you and so relentlessly receptive.
Swallowing each indiscretion and choking on your fumes,
While all around you are but pawns for your own use.
Stained with the vague idea that you are a ‘person’
In reality I watch as your psychoses gradually worsen.
The only thing I know for sure; your gender and your name,
Behind closed doors and cold surfaces I watch you shift the blame.
The feelings that you say you feel are all just a charade,
Never once have you been genuine, never let down your guard.
But I’m the one whose laughing now, I’m the one that’s real,
I have the ability to love and to care, the ability to feel.
You’ll never be more than a shadow, a watery reflection in the mirror,
And by default I am everything you’re not; I’ll always be the winner.
Hi Positivagirl did you get to read my story? I wanted some feedback from you but I never saw a comment from you
Hi Red Lioness where is your comment? Can you send me a link?
Hello, I wanted to share my story too. I´ve never done that before so…here it goes:
I am from Spain. I moved to Vienna when I was 21 and there I was living alone, having a nice job and so on. I joined Tinder because one of my best friends recommended it to me as I was in a new city. There I met G (I´ll name him like that). He is a professional poker player and the first times we met where simply amazing. It seemed he would really understand me and my situation. We kept on meeting for one week then he left to Australia for about two months, he would write me from time to time and then he came back earlier from his trip, he said I was one of the reasons. Of course I was the happiest girl..And there we started our “serious” relationship. He was traveling a lot because of the poker tournaments and I would stay in Vienna working. There were times where he would spend 48 h straight into my apartment and then leave out to a tournament and say nothing to me for weeks. I did not know what kind of relationship this was. The times where he actually stayed in Vienna he was playing online until late at night and he would write me around 3 am if I wanted to go over his place. And I would. Only to find out that he was playing fifa with his flatmates and when he got tired he would come to the room and sleep.
There were numerous times where we had sex in public space (less than 3 minutes by walk from his apartment). I remember saying to him why don´t we just go to your place? We did this more than 5 times outside. Then months pass and he flew to Vegas for two months and he invited me over (obviously I paid everything, flights, hotels…) I would spend one week in there, it was my first time in USA he did not pick me up from the airport neither he dropped me. He smoked plenty of weed up to 10 joints per day. We would have this amazing sex and although things were a little bit unreal I hold on to him.
I flew back to Europe and he came to Spain again to play poker after his trip to Vegas. By that time I knew all of his friends and he knew my family and my friends too. He always talked bad about them and tried to distance me from them. After summer he proposed to moved to Mexico so after half a year (by that time we were for one year together) we moved to Baja California. The moment we arrived there things changed completely. He was not the nice guy I met in Europe, he was an arrogant and lazy guy, to whom I had to cook every single day, I had to clean, I had to go groceries by myself in a country where I was new (and let me tell you not that safe around Tijuana). That time he started to get agressive. He would break a door, he would throw me things and even hit me in the hands. I tried to leave every time but he just did not let me, he would start crying and shouting “please do not leave please!” so I would stay. The next summer we went to Vegas again and I fell into a deep depression. I could not hold it any longer and he knew it, I said I prefered to be at home alone (in Mexico) rather than being in Vegas alone all day with nothing to do (of course he did not want me to work, every time I´d find a job online, that is what I do, freelance, he would say for what they pay me he could mantain me. And he was always against my bosses). He made me stay in Vegas for two months and after that my mental state was pretty bad. I never got to see him, he was always playing (or so he said) and he would leave home around 10am and come back at 2am.
After that we spend the summer again in Spain and he got really jelous even of his brother (because I had a good relationship with him) and he would become super obsessed with how I dressed and who I talked too and what I was posting on social media. In January we moved to another part of MExico (Yucatán) against my will, I was depressed, I kept on telling him I needed to be somehwere around my family and friends and he did not listen. Things there got even worse. He hit me several times and he was NEVER at home. I would come to the point where I would hid in the bathroom, and close the door locked, and he would unlock it with a coin from the outside, and I remember at that moment all I could think was to take the razer and kill myself. Actually there was a time where he opened the door and my first instinct was to ran to the kitchen and take a knife. It was simply not worth it to stay with him anymore, all the fights, the physical abuse, the shouts, the devaluation… One day he left and he was supposed to be back in 10 days but he never came back. HE LEFT ME ALONE IN MEXICO. I had no idea where he was, if he had found somebody else, he did not answer any of my messages, neither my calls on whatsapp and on Skype. Nothing. I lost 15 kilograms in one month. I am 24 and my weight was of 47 kg. With the help of my family I got out of that apartment and flew back to Europe. I wrote him a goodbye email which he never answered and just when I landed to Europe he started writing me where I was, if I was ok. I answred to leave me alone.
After two months of being in Europe, recovering weight and talking with my family he sent me an email. Saying “I left him alone in Mexico” and that “I drained him” that he gave me everything in his life and he forgot about himself. Saying he had depression and a hard attack when he got back home and saw I was not there (when I told him several times I was leaving). After two days of receiving the email I called him and said this relationship had come to an end. He first shouted and then he said he was so happy I was doing great and I developed so fast. By that time he was in Mexico.
THREE DAYS LATER HE WAS KNOCKING THE DOOR OF MY PARENTS HOUSE.
I could not believe my eyes when I saw him in my room. He tried to pull me back, to tell me we could go again and pack my stuff. At that moment I started to have suicidal thoughts again. Lucky my family new all the story, we went to court and had a trial, they got him in jail (twice in a month, he had been in jail for drugs in Miami too). And when he got out of the jail after the trial first thing he did was calling me again.
After that I have been doing therapy, healing and now I am way better. I have to say that I had no contact with him whatsoever but he did wrote my brother and my sister, the first sentence of his message was: “I and only I know what´s best for her…”. Three months have passed today and he keeps on blocking and unblocking me from whatsapp, daily. I did not write him anymore and I did not contact him never again. But I am afraid he will at some point…when he realized he is loosing power. I am not checking him on whatsapp for two weeks now.
Sometimes I wonder if he really is a psychopath..But after writing all the story for the first time. After being in the hospital because he hit me, alone in Mexico, with him not wanting to come with me, after almost killing myself and being abused sexually in a state of mind that was the lowest at that moment. After him stealing all my certificates and hide them from me so I could not work for more than a year (the he would bring them to me back to Spain saying he found them at home THEY WERE NOT THERE I LOOKED AND SEARCHED FOR MONTHS!!!), I think I have my answer in there…
Just because your ex made you fall in love and treated you like you’ve always wanted (virtually everyone does this in the courtship phase, if you didn’t you would be friends) then changed doesn’t make him / her a sociopath, quit looking for justification that nothing was your fault and they were just using you, chances are if you ever dated a sociopath you would never know.
You would always know – once the relationship came to an end. People are not as stupid as you think they are.