Focusing that everything was a lie, and an illusion, will only serve to hurt you further!

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For many people, they start reading about sociopaths through doing a search for ‘compulsive liar’ or something like this. Or at least I did, this is where I started off. There are liars, and then there are liars. Sociopaths have the ability to lie that is beyond the scale of anything. If you have been involved with one you will be aware of this. They are compulsive pathological liars.

Try not to focus on the faking and taking

Betrayal is one of the most hurtful things that a human can experience. It is more hurtful, when the betrayal comes from someone that you love, look up to, admire. When someone that you thought a lot of, betrays you, it can feel like a stab in the heart and the back at the same time.

Coming through the fog of confusion, when you are either in the relationship, or just leaving the relationship, it is normal to want to search out answers. You desperately need the answers to questions. WHY? After all, so little makes sense?

The more information that you gather, the further that you delve, and the more truth that you uncover, that expose the lies, the deceit, the betrayal, you can feel empty, lost, bereft, heartbroken, betrayed, stunned.

This is when you go into the first stage of bereavement. ‘Denial’. At this point, we search for evidence that this it is NOT true. You don’t want it to be true. This cannot be happening?

Perhaps you have it wrong? ….

The more that you uncover, the more lies start to unravel, and you are stunned at the truth, that actually – everything was a lie. You realise that what was shown to your face, was certainly not what was happening behind the scenes. The actions were definitely not matching the words and gestures that were shown to your face. You feel betrayed and deceived.

To move towards acceptance, you need to accept the truth. For many, this is to hang on to the truth that so much was a lie.

Focusing on lies and betrayal can bring more pain

If you focus on everything being a lie, this means that however long you spent with that person was a pointless exercise. Nothing in life is a pointless exercise. While there are many events in my life, that I wish had never happened, I cannot change those things. They have happened.

When you focus on the lies, and betrayal, you actually keep that person attached to you. You do not set yourself free. Focusing on fakery, keeps you in the role of victim. This is painful. You deserve more than this. They are the fakers, the takers. You are not. This is their role to carry. Not yours!!!

Forgiveness is key

To let go, so that you can grow, you really do need to forgive. To forgive, it is important to see it for the way that it is. Yes, often the sociopath does target people who would be good victims. However, it isn’t always like that. They are not always that long sighted, unless there is an obvious opportunity that is difficult to miss. Sometimes they are with someone for genuine reasons. Those reasons, might to you, seem trivial and being an object to be used. But to the sociopath, this is really the best that they can offer. They are not really capable of much else. In their mind, they spend a lot of time ‘grooming’ you, and therefore they deserve whatever bounty they get from the incredible amount of effort that they put in. (anybody who has been with a charismatic sociopath will be aware of how charming, charismatic, fun, and just your ‘best friend’ they can appear to be). It can be difficult to let go of that illusion in your head.

Remember that I outlined the five stages of grief and the healing process?

  • Denial
  • Anger
  • Bargaining
  • Depression
  • Acceptance

For many people, they attempt to move into acceptance, by simply saying,

It was all fake

This hurts. It hurts like hell. But, we tell ourselves, that if we focus on ‘it was all ‘fake’ then this will protect us. After all, it wasn’t real? Right?

Well, YES it WAS real!! It was real to you. In fact, even for the sociopath it was real. Yes, they master manipulators and game players. They are expert at this. Life is a game to them. It was as real to them, as it was to you. Of course you both had different motives. The sociopath was looking for whatever it was that they wanted out of the relationship, and stayed for as long as they could get it, or until a better source of supply came along. This doesn’t mean that it wasn’t real.

It was real. It did happen. It was as real to the sociopath, as it was to you. Perhaps it was real to the sociopath for different reasons. The biggest difference is that you were thinking with your heart – and they were thinking with their head.  It is rarely personal with the sociopath. They don’t always set out to hurt you. It is just their nature and who they are, that means that they do hurt people. They do not experience emotions, guilt, remorse or shame. They therefore do not think about you, or your feelings. This is not important to them.

What this DOESN’T mean

What this DOESN’T mean, is that you were not important. You might have been important to them (at that time).  I think it was Thomas Sheridan who said, that a psycho can rip you off, destroy your life, and then look back later and say ‘I quite liked that person’ it is rarely personal. It is just that you were dispensable to the sociopath. To them, it is akin to a business transaction. You might be able to relate this to how you are at work, when you have to be nice to someone that you do not like? You have to be nice, polite and professional, as this is the way that you need to behave at work. This is how sociopaths see relationships. Like a business transaction. They do not think the same way that you do. They do something for as long as they see the purpose and benefit of it. Once the purpose and benefit is gone, they are gone.

People do not become emotional at work, this is not professional. It is business and you are there to do a job. Sociopaths see relationships like this. Sometimes they might genuinely enjoy your company. Yes, they might mean it when they say that they had some great fun times with you. It might therefore seem confusing, when next day they are off with someone else? It doesn’t mean that the statement, they had fun times with you is not true, it just means that they had fun times with you, they are now having fun times with someone else.

So if you do not focus on everything was fake and a lie – what should you focus on?

Perhaps focus on incompatibility. That the sociopath is just the way that they are and that they have always been this way and likely they will in the future, also always be this way too. You know how sometimes you can have two people, who are just ‘incompatible’, everything is wrong you fight and argue all of the time? It is like this really.

Because of the way that the sociopath is, they simply cannot give you what you want. Unless of course, you want to spend the rest of your life being duped, conned and deceived?

Life is ALWAYS a game to the sociopath. You would only lose yourself, and your own life. There would be no room for YOUR own goals and projects, life would all be about making the sociopath happy. It would always be about them. Likely you would never make them happy anyway. If you look back, it never really was about you. It was always about them, and their needs.

So, just focus that you were not compatible. See the truth – the truth is that the sociopath faked compatibility. Everything else was real. At least it was at the time. The truth was, that you think with your heart, and they think with their head. Its not really compatible. They can never really give you what you want or need.

When you focus on faking, and that everything was a lie, this can be so painful. It will make you believe that it was all about betrayal. That nothing was real. This will only reinforce your belief that it is difficult to trust. It is important to move past that sense of mistrust, as this belongs to THEM not YOU. This is their issue not yours. They are the ones who are untrustworthy, not you.

How they are, is a reflection on THEM  – NOT YOU! This was never about you, and how worthless you were. To believe that everything was a lie, and nothing was genuine, and that it was ALL about betrayal – is really as ridiculous – as believing that somebody who suffers with depression, can never be happy!!! (think about it)!

The truth was, you split – because you were just NOT compatible. THIS is the ONLY illusion that you need to focus on!!

Copyright datingasociopath.com 2014

189 thoughts on “Focusing that everything was a lie, and an illusion, will only serve to hurt you further!”

    1. Thank you for you words and wisdom you are helping me to understand and heal myself of the wounds a sociopath caused me after a 5 years relationship. God Bless You

  1. Hmm … I don’t really buy this. Thinking with one’s head does not necessarily mean deceiving someone. The analogy of pretending to like someone you have to work with is faulty because you pretend only to the extent of putting aside your personal feelings so you can do a good job. You do not deliberately mislead or deceive the person.

    Incompatibility in a relationship does not always mean being manipulated and tricked.

    While I understand your point, I also think it might come across as making light of a sociopath’s motives and behaviour. I don’t want to forget that he was responsible for what happened. It wasn’t just about being incompatible.

    He deceived and he manipulated me. And the relationship was founded on his lies and misdirection. This hurts me, but I know I am not to blame. I know that not everyone is not to be trusted.

    I don’t want to excuse his behaviour. In time, I think I will be able to forgive him but I don’t think it’s important now. He doesn’t need my forgiveness. And I won’t beat myself up over not being able to forgive just yet.

    What is important now is to love myself and do what makes me happy and what I think is fair to ME!

    So yes, I agree with you that we should focus on ourselves, but I don’t think we have to ignore the truth of the matter: that it was more than just about incompatibilty. Lots of people are incompatible, but decent, normal people deal with it graciously and with respect. With a sociopath it’s about being sick and twisted and selfish. Incompatibiliy? Sure. But only like how human beings are incompatible with light bulbs. Lol.

    Peace and Love

    OneRedFlower

    1. ORF;
      I completely understand when you say you are not ready to forgive – you are in the anger stage. Good – you are progressing, i.e.; not stuck in denial. I was exactly there myself and know a bit about feeling betrayed. Unfortunately, I let him talk his way back into my life for a bit and of course more lies etc. You know the cycle. ‘The heart wants what it wants” even when all logic denies the possibility because these people are not capable of giving what we need.
      I try to remember something at times like this, in time, when you are ready, and only on your timetable I hope this means something to you as well.
      ” Forgive – Not because they deserve it,
      Because you deserve peace ”
      The only thing you did was give your heart to someone that could not ever be what you needed to have a healthy relationship.
      Prayers for you.

      1. Hi GS
        Thank you very much 🙂

        Yes you’re spot on.

        My therapist says I’m somewhere between anger and s
        acceptance. She called it the “refocusing” stage where I’m trying to get back to being me and onwards towards a better future 🙂

        Peace

        ORF

      2. Hi Antoniette, that is tough. When you work with him, you can’t escape. It is similar to those who have children, as you are forced to have contact, but also you can either wait for him to move onto someone new (and hope he doesn’t cause too much carnage in the meantime)… or get another job. They can destroy and they can destroy your name, reputation and career. Which can cause major stress as the money that you earn pays for your home, bills everything. The best advice that I can offer is to treat it as a business transaction. Do not display emotion. Be professional only and refuse to engage in any further interaction.

      3. I am a pretty new “regular” here. I am using a different name to post because I know he knows that sites like this exist and I don’t want to take the chance of him seeing this and recognizing my name.
        I am in the same boat, Antoniette. I have to see mine every day. The things that have worked for me so far are:
        1) Every time I lay eyes on him, I let myself dwell for a moment on the pitifulness that is his life. He will never know what love is. He will never know what feels like to make love with someone he truly loves. He will never know what it is like to be able to trust someone completely and to know that you are safe. His life is perpetually empty, and destroying me silenced for just a moment the emptiness and isolation that consumes him and that he can never escape. How sad. How can I not just pity him.
        2) I carry myself “above” him always. I give myself permission to act condescending (NOT angry – he doesn’t get to see that he can effect my happiness) because I actually am superior. He complimented me by moving on. It means I was too strong. I was not submissive, or controllable enough anymore, and he needed someone who would provide him with the unconditional adoration. He found that he wasn’t able to use me as a piece in his game anymore.
        3) I constantly expect in advance his verbal digs and attempts to hurt me. If I expect them, then I am just waiting for them to come. So when they do, it is not a surprise, more like a game almost. Like, “Hey, there it is! Knew it. 10 points for me!”
        4) I try to use him. I have already been able to shame him into buying me an awesome set of weights and I got him to pay for some medical tests I needed to get done by threatening to rat him out to his new plaything. I also lie a lot to him and get to laugh to myself when he believes it. Like positivagirl always says, playing him back is tricky, and I do it sparingly.
        Hope this helps.

    2. One red flower,
      I understand your point of view. However, don’t forget the most important fact about forgiveness. You aren’t doing this for the sociopath but rather for yourself.
      Bob

      1. Hi Bob
        Well EXACTLY! Which is why I shd decide when I’m ready and not feel pressured into it by any moralistic argument. Don’t be mistaken: I have loads of integrity but I think the process of forgiveness has to be organic to be sincere. Lip service is useless.

        Cheers

        OneRedFlower

      2. You let go when you want to red flower. How long you hold onto it is really up to you. I think I was 33 when I asked the question ‘how long will I feel this way, when will this pain go away?’ The answer was blunt but something I never forgot. It was simply ‘when you want it to’ ‘the choice is yours’. You know that was so truthful. The choice was mine. I could hold onto it be angry hateful keep it attached to me, or let it go. I did that weekend. I let go and started focusing on me and my life. Life started moving forward. It was at that time I realised that it was only me holding me back. So you are right the choice Is yours.

      3. Thanks for responding to me. I agree with you. Everyone has there own timing as to forgiveness and as you said it has to be sincere. As I am still dealing with my sociopath, I have found this site incredible. Great insights and advice. Best to you

  2. Amen Positivagirl! You have helped me so much through the past several months. I have gotten quite strong and have healed a lot, thanks to you. I am tired of thinking how it was all fake. You’re right, incompatibility! Thank you for EVERYTHING! 🙂

    1. Yep at the end of the day, that really is all it is. It is incompatible as you could be with it if you wanted to be used yelled at controlled etc. That’s just their way. Most people don’t want that that’s why its incompatible. It really is. For those who have gone back lots of times. Within a short space of time you realise that you are back to square one. Your unhappy just like every other incompatible relationship.

      1. Its not just being incompatible, it’s the betrayal, the lies, the deceit, that hurts…….normal people might be incompatible, but a sociopath is without conscience, mentally sick, twisted and selfish, thinking only of what he can gain.

      2. Yes, this is true Jeanie. But what you get with a sociopath, is literally the best that they can offer. They will be the same with anybody else. I don’t believe that it is true that everything was a lie (especially for those that were in long term relationships). Yes, the betrayal, the lies, the deceit, is what hurts the most. It makes you feel worthless. Like this is all that you were to them. I don’t believe that to be true. You were worthy to them – for all that they were capable of offering. The fact that this isn’t the way that you see things – is really why you were incompatible.

  3. Thank you for writing this. I think it’s true, and I can relate. I was focusing on the lies and betrayal and thinking it was all fake and nothing was real. It’s been a couple months now since I found out the truth I needed to know to be done with him, and only in the last few weeks have I felt like I’ve finally been “sad” about losing him. In other words, I’ve started to let myself feel pain over the loss of the good things that were between us and grieve that. I know I’ll never go back to him but I do think I mattered, because he stuck with me. It’s funny though, he used to say at the end, that he couldn’t give me what I need or want. He said I was better off without him. He said a lot of things over the three years that indicated he was dead inside or empty and couldn’t feel–down to telling me exactly that. I so see now it had nothing to do with me, it’s just how he is, and so I’m able to grieve the good things that did happen, though they were few and far between. I’m not sure I’m at forgiveness, but I do agree with the idea of not focusing on the lies because it prevents you from grieving properly I think and that means you can’t move through the grief to healing. You have to move through the grieving process to get to the other side. I am so grateful to you for your site and all the people here also, who have told their stories or offered kind words. I could not have gotten to this point so quickly if it wasn’t for you. Thank you. PS- I did find your site because I was looking up pathological lying also.

    1. Mine also told me these things. Said he couldn’t empathise, didn’t feel, didn’t really know what love was. He was sad about these things, knew what he was but said he couldn’t change, relationship meant a prison to him. He is so sad inside. I don’t think they really miss all the pain, i guess it depends on how it was between you. I thought he could grow, leave the hurt of whatever it was that made him that way, but it’s just too deep, happened too early in life maybe and the brain is changed, and they live forever imprisoned in hidden pain. They are in prisons of their own making, thinking they are doing fine, when they need our love to confirm that. Fact is, without our giving, they are not fine. If they lived in a world of their types they couldnt survive either. They need to constantly take love to try to fill the void within. These people are so sad but we can’t afford to try to help with love because they are dangerous to us. So they move onto the next looking for the perfect partner, who can never exist because of the narcissistic perfectionism that is part of this condition…a never ending serial..and a life that eventually becomes empty even for them as a result of constant failure.

    2. Thank you for your comment, I really needed to hear this today, I am feeling really sad and am focusing on the lies and betrayal. I found out a couple of months ago of the cheating and I haven’t had any contact with him for a few weeks, but this week he has been calling and emailing, I haven’t responded but I am feeling worn out and really sad. I believe he even got married last month, I know I need to start focusing on my healing and not the lies. He used to also tell me that he wasn’t good for me and I needed to find someone that could give me what I needed. I realized now he wasn’t giving me what I wanted but I thought that if I loved him enough he would, I was so wrong and now know that we were incompatible from the beginning.

      1. Aw am sorry you are feeling sad. I know that sadness can come from the depths of your heart. A feeling that the outcome would always be the same. What you describe is normal for such a recent split. Time does help to heal all wounds. Is there anyway that you can block his calls and emails?

      2. Thank you positivagirl for your response. I have tried blocking his emails but for some reason they come through, I did find an app that I used to block private numbers which I used today and he did try to call and it just hang up on them so they can’t leave a message. I feel so lost and numb, how long are these feelings going to last. I wish that I could just move in as he has and not feel this way. It pisses me off that in the last few days I have been consumed thinking about him while he is enjoying his new life as a newly wed , I still find it hard to believe that this is real, he not only cheated on me with two different women but he got married. What really upsets me is that he is going on with his life as if nothing happened. He has introduced her to his family and our friends, I haven’t reached to any of them and neither have they. I know I should be happy and relieved that I left when I did, but I know that intellectually but my heart is broken and I am finding myself missing him.

  4. I don’t feel comfortable replying on the page, but thank you. I found your page last year at the perfect time and have been rebuilding. Lately I’ve found myself in a state of arrested development I couldn’t put my finger on.

    This post nailed it for me. I’m going to pay better attention to this focus. Thank you for everything you write. It helps.

    Paul

    >

  5. It has really been difficult because I have been focussing on the fact that it was ALL a lie. And he totally manipulated and used me throughout. And it really has not specially diminished the pain and the feeling of betrayal. I will try to focus on the incompatibility now. Especially incompatible in the sense that I’m a human being and he’s a monster. Thanks pos.

    1. Monster is right. I’ve decided just to think about him as a very disturbed individual who cannot be helped and cannot change. You and how you behaved were not a lie. You were real. The good things you did based on what you thought was true was real. He can’t take anything good that you are or that you did, away from you. You are still okay. I felt exactly as you do now, and could have said, and did say, those same things. I still can’t call him a disturbed human being, because I too feel like he’s missing some crucial component of being human. But you’re still real, and human and your goodness was true. You’ll get through it…peace to you.

    2. Thats right @Cammy Human beings cannot be compatible with Monsters!
      Thank you @Positiva for even more insight! Very helpful!

    3. Focus on you are a normal human being with feelings, he is a sick, twisted shell with no feeling of guilt, remorse, or love……..how sad to live a life without feelings, and have to mimic normal peoples feelings….

  6. Wow, this post really triggered a lot of memories. Hmmm. Yep I still see him as demonic, I am good. Your words are so true. I think the hardest one to get through is BETRAYAL, the only person to ever do this to me in my life was NS, then after him, it was a cascade of people. I couldn’t stop it. Horrible.

    1. Yes the post was meant to be about (or was going to be about) the loss of innocence and how we can never regain that innocence again. Then I realised I wrote about that with the liar post….

  7. Thanks for this post Positivagirl. I know I’m in the acceptance part of the grief process now and over my soc and I know now that we are incompatible because I never want to go through what I did with him again. I don’t hate him and in fact I had some very good times with him (as he says he did with me and I believe him) but none of that can make up for the never ending lies he told or the gaslighting. I almost like my soc now, but definitely at arms length and not as a partner.

    1. Yes you can’t change that they are manipulative game players and liars. This is the way that they will always be. I think to think that nothing was ever genuine, just because so much was fake, is like thinking that someone who suffers with depression can never be happy. Of course they can. Depressed people can sometimes be happy, just as much as some things are genuine (at least at the given moment) with sociopaths). I found with mine, his trigger would always be if he thought the relationship would end and he wouldn’t see me again anyway. That was when he kicked out the most esp with theft. Always at the end (which was many many times). That isn’t to say everything was a lie and a con. We did have some good times. They just have a habit of ruining what is good, and taking an opportunity just too far and acting on impulse.

    2. Bravo Lavache! I feel the same way, he’s not going to break my heart again, I am on to him, and never take anything for truth that comes out of his mouth…….unfortunately, he will always be a full blown sociopath, to never be healed or recover……but we have to protect ourselves, and we can with all this wonderful knowledge……..together we will make it!

  8. Wow, what timing on this piece, positivagirl! I was posting ( I think yesterday) on another older thread from last summer ( I think every link you have on here has helped me at some point in the process of figuring out my retarded lover) and I was so caught up in what I was writing. But just tonight, I had told my sister about how your blogs have so enlightened me and made me understand how crazy spaths are. You know, how they lie like most people tell the truth, and find with equal discomfort to do anything else ( and all the while accuse YOU of being a liar!). It’s really amazing to think about, my sis was struck too.

    But this is just great, as I have made great strides this week to change the way I think about it. I don’t know if I am ready or could ever forgive them, much less be a friend ( as he had asked why not?). But it is so much more important to take measured educated steps in dealing with the loss. Everyone on here has had to do this, we have no choice, we’ve been discarded. But I, like some other posts above, do feel like at the time I mattered to him. In a way I feel sorry for him that I think deep down this condition torments even his soul ( he often speaks of Jesus, and even at one point was getting daily scriptures on his smartphone). I saw him through much progress, and I can brag that I know I affected his personality in some positive ways! That makes me feel better about myself! I think we all probably, when our spaths are in a deep crisis sometime soon, will reflect on the wonderfulness of all of us, and perhaps, if even briefly, mourn the loss of us in their lives.

  9. They think they can fool all of the people all of the time, but not when you have the knowledge of their mental illness….we are on to them, and question everything they say and do, as you cannot believe anything they say or do……they are liars, but not the best liars, I can sometimes see right through him, I have even told him, “you are so transparent”, so as I continue to gain knowledge, he is becoming less convincing…..but, of course, I would rather focus on my future without him, soon to be done.

  10. I have been reading about this disorder for many months now and have not come across an explanation and an analysis as accurate as this. The researching of compulsive lying is exactly how I started my search for an understanding of my ex girlfriends behavior. I totally agree that focusing on the betrayal and lies only serves to keep us in the role of victim and serves to feed our sub conscious mind which later manifest it’s self in negative emotions. To forgive and move forward as difficult as I know it is the best way to put this very real and painful experience behind us. There are two disciplines that I employ when my mind starts to wonder and think about the past. First I pray for my ex girlfriend who happens to be the mother of our 5 year old daughter. I prayer for her health and safety and her ability to be a good mother. Second I form mental images of what I want in my next relationship. These excersises help to interrupt the compulsive thinking that comes with having ended a relationship with a sociopath. Thanks again for your great work and I hope this helps some one.

  11. I think…maybe we focus on all the lies,and betrayal,manipulation,etc….because we NEED to hate them. When really,we still love them. I also think,we fear letting go of that anger….because by getting to acceptance…it’s really over. I remember when My mom died….I didn’t want to get to the acceptance stage…because that meant A.I really did have to move on with my life,and that time of “magical thinking” was over. B. the further the time passed from her date of death,the more she became so untangible. C. It’s the same with our exspaths.The more time passes with NC,the more SAD it is,however,ACCEPTING something,that is uncomfortable,isnt supposed to be comfortable. I love your article today POS. It is so true. We are only…destroying ourselves…by focusing on the BAD things,which were a lot of BAD things,So…..As uncomfortable,final,and sad as it is…..I say we all head for that acceptance stage. Put our white flags up,and surrender…and focus on OURSELVES,as much as possible.

  12. “Without a conscience”: THAT’s what I googled when I found out that the man I anticipated spending the rest of my life with was merely a mirage, a monster capable of the most evil and blatantly callous behavior I had ever witnessed.

    Sheridan’s comments about the sociopath’s behavior as being “nothing personal” was absolutely one of the most valuable ideas that I read after educating myself about the characteristics of a psychopath. I was chosen because of my positive qualities: my accomplishments, my personality, and my empathy. Of course, it was my naivete about the disorder that made his job so much easier… Before I met the sociopath, I thought they only existed in prisons and dark alleyways.

    I don’t, however, find the “forgiveness” thing particularly valuable to me. He is a robot, a cluster of cells in human form without the integral component that makes us human. And he was unnecessarily cruel: watching me go to weekly counseling sessions to figure out why my moods were swinging and I couldn’t sleep. The problem, of course, was HIM and the detachment I sensed that he denied existed. When I pulled away, he sought the assistance of my friends and siblings to bring me back into his hellish hole of a life.

    I don’t need to forgive him for me, either. To forgive him suggests that there would be progression beyond it, that I would somehow be better. It was a year of psychotherapy after our break-up during which I learned WHY I was chosen, WHY I was so easily misled, and HOW I can trust again without forgetting that human(oids) like him exist.

    Despite countless requests to him to leave me alone, he continues to contact me through email and mutual friends, using them and their Facebook profiles to try and get a response from me. I see him as poison who will not hesitate to pull me back into his web, and fully capable of immeasurable damage. I have forgiving MYSELF, knowing that I am not to blame for his behavior. But forgive him? No, because while I have moved on well enough to enjoy a relationship with a loving and very empathetic man, I remain aware that the human Satan will NEVER change and NEVER be worthy of anything beyond my disdain.

    1. Your right. You are. What a shishow of emotions they leave behind. My last post,I was on the “forgiveness train”…than I read what you wrote…and your right. BUT,I do not want to walk around angry all the time. So is that why we should forgive them? I don’t know. Is it that,we were left with such self-doubt,self-blame.low self-worth that we need to forgive them? what a shitshow of emotions.

    2. Hi Lacey,

      I understand what you are saying.. In the first part of my separation to my ex-socio, I was trying to be forgiving and understanding. I was understanding his difficult childhood, where he had 2 blind parents that raised him. He led me to believe that he sacrificed his childhood for them. I knew him since I was a small child and grew up in a small church congregation with him. I had no reason not to believe him. His parents really were blind. The thing is, he was always telling me about things we did with our families and outings, that I could not remember. After asking my father, I found out these things never happened. There are other things that he described in much detail of our past, and after checking with friends, it never happened. Its just that he was so convincing, that I thought maybe I forgot some things from 20 years ago.

      Obviously I will have a long story, that will be very similar to everyone else here. After all the lies, deception, betrayal, hurt, pain, manipulation, I still was having empathy towards him and what he went through in his life. I even pitied him at some point. I was focused on forgiveness in the beginning of our separation (that is probably not how the stages of healing are supposed to go) I do believe in forgiveness, so that was my best way to cope at that time. However, as time went on, and I actually realized the real truth about what he was and what he is and always will be, I decided to not forgive.

      It’s not that I want to continue to hurt myself through not forgiving. I understand that not forgiving is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. The thing is…I remember hearing that when Jesus was dying on the cross, he said something like “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.” My ex and all of these other Sociopaths know exactly what they are doing and they will continue their evil for as long as they can get away with it.

      There is no “repentance” with them. They use one victim to acquire more skills so that they can get even better at harming the next person.

      I believe you, they are “Human Satans” and how can we ever forgive Satan? Its almost like saying “Oh its Ok, keep spreading Evil all over the place, keep lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating, murdering, etc, etc.”

      Satan came to STEAL, KILL, and DESTROY! And I believe that these sick creeps called sociopaths/psychopaths are following that same plan.

      No… I do not feel like “forgiving” the Socio that did this to me because he will only keep harming more innocent women and people. This is not ok with me. I can, however let it go. I can let go of what happened to me and move on.
      And after everything I have learned, I firmly believe that my ex must have made his parents life a living hell while they were still here on Earth. I have no sympathy for him and never will!

      Yes after 8 1/2 months of no contact, I am able to let it go. I am prepared for when he tries to talk to me again at some point. Hopefully he wont, but if he does, he will get no response from me.

      I believe one thing that we can all do as survivors is to spread awareness. Most people do not go looking for information on Sociopaths, Psychopaths until they are entangled with one. I do not believe we should try to “save” the next victims of our ex sociopaths. What I am saying is to spread awareness to the world, like Positiva is doing. We don’t even have to write a blog. We can tell people in conversation about our experiences, or we can just talk about the information, signs, etc that we have learned of Sociopaths. People deserve to know.

      Satan came to Steal, Kill, and Destroy. What better way than to begin with the most empathetic human beings on earth. Good, Wonderful, caring, loving and Amazing people are a HUGE threat to Satan’s plan and if he can use Sociopaths to throw us off our paths to GREATNESS, he will. Satan wants us to be weak and powerless! We cannot let Satan or his “Human Satans” keep us down. No one can ever keep a good man or woman down!

      If you are truly called to greatness, YOU WILL BE TRIED BY FIRE. Greatness only makes way for the GREAT! What remains after the fire is THE TRUTH!

      For me, I believe that it is IMPORTANT to EMPOWER others with the information and knowledge! That will make a huge IMPACT in our world today. There will be a shift in what is going on this world and things WILL get better, I believe that in my heart.

      I believe we can use what happened to us to make a difference in this world. See what was MEANT for our Harm, God intended it for GOOD to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. Thank you Positiva for all that you are doing to make a difference in this world!!

  13. I was watching a comedy show last night and this section just hit me so hard, but in a good way. That’s me laughing. I swear this comedian knew my ex-sp– even though he didn’t–he gets him down to even his mannerisms and speech–he was/is a fisherman and that was a topic about which he probably lied a lot–now that I know the truth. I know some will prob not find this funny, but it made me feel better because he just points out how utterly crazy these people are and how they get away with it—you know, the whole daring to call him on his outrageous lies–so true!! Anyway. I hope some others here can find the humor in this. Pain eventually will lead to your healing….hang in there everyone!! http://youtu.be/LegARkRSP8w (PS–he starts out saying “pathological” liars at the beginning of the clip, but that part got cut off)

    1. @B This video is AWESOME! Thank you for sharing!! I can remember listening to my ex go on and on about certain subjects. I would ask questions a lot.. I never realized I was helping him create the stories.. Maybe he should have just wrote fictional books and kept his life real… lol.

      1. @NewDay23–I’m glad you liked the video. I know some people are still hurting so much that it’s probably not useful, but I came across it by accident completely and I knew I had to share it. It’s so ridiculous now when I think about how he lied about so many things. I think it’s true too, it’s like he was daring me to call him on his crazy ass lies and I didn’t do it. It seemed like they were so crazy that they had to be true. Now I know better. This video just showed me again, reminded me, that these people are NUTS and it’s not me (or you, or any of us here). Peace and healing to all…

      2. @B Since it has been about 8 1/2 months of no contact, I can finally laugh about a lot of it, even though it was a serious situation that caused much damage to me. I can laugh at him actually because he truly is a loser and has no life. He has to pretend to be someone he is not to get women to pay attention to him, so that he can deceive, manipulate, abuse, betray. He cannot possibly love himself because he cannot be alone. His hate for himself causes him to hurt others to give him satisfaction in life. What’s funny about him, is that though he got away with some lies with me, I saw right through him and how stupid and pathetic he really was… Creating story after story, inconsistencies in everything he said, pretend conversations on the phone with people in front of me… I observed so much from him, and all the while he thought he was getting away with something. He did get away with something and he did succeed in hurting me deeply, but he did not win! After noticing the inconsistencies, catching him in a big lie that he covered up with an even bigger lie that was so outrageous, no one could believe… this is when the devalue stage began and I was so hurt, wondering what I did wrong… soon after he started another relationship and after learning about it, I stayed quiet for 3 weeks until my opportunity came to expose him in a huge way. He was completely blind-sided!! He knows that he cannot fool me and I am not as naïve as he thought I was, he had to move on to easier targets… Because I caught on quickly and now, I am the one living a drama free life without being lied to, betrayed, deceived, manipulated, and abused!! It is very peaceful and I can only laugh at him because he is truly pathetic! I am the winner now!! Its a great feeling!! And I hope everyone here gets to this point. Of course, I still have more healing to go, but it gets better each day!

  14. I have been in this (try and try to get out) for 5 years now. Not really seeing him that much over the past year but connected enough for me to stop my life. Not him though. Then when he knows I am finally meeting a guy he professes his love again getting me back but I am very guarded not letting him in all the way. I
    I have been through hell with and because of him (drug addict, rehab, being arrested for stealing, courts, etc etc) waiting for his words to be his actions. Now he has dumped me again not doing one thing he said and of course its my fault!!
    Telling me things that really are truthful about us but the problem is I should be saying it to him!! He’s tall, good looking, great sex etc.
    I feel so lost and empty, used, hurt. I don’t cry really anymore.
    How do I stop this inside me!?!?!? How do I cut him out of my heart? How do I let go of the dream and believing that kept me in it? How do I protect him still from the stuff he did and keep that poison inside me? I told myself the only way it was ok was that he would be what he told me.
    Please help me with some of your wisdom!! I have to let this go!!!!!

    1. The key is to find yourself to heal that broken person in the mirror. I am not on my computer right now to find posts. No 1 would be to establish no contact. To let go of fear that he is all that you have and all that you are. Most importantly I wanted to send you a huge hug, you sound like you need it and really need some love. First step is to start loving you. Welcome to the site. You will for sure receive love and positive energy from here there are some wonderful people around this site who will help you welcome!!

    1. Not at all. They can’t if they are not in your life. I forgive my daughters father and the one after. They couldn’t come back into my life I wouldn’t give the opportunity. Most of all I forgive myself that it happened. Am relieved they are out of my life. Perhaps indifference is another word. I dont focus on what they did. I let it go. They are not important to my life. They had the power to damage my life at the time. I am sure not going to give them the power to stay in my life, thoughts and carry it around. Forgiveness let’s it go. That it is no longer part of you. It’s gone. It can take a while to get there. I guess with me because I dated more than one, I see it this way. If I didn’t I would be destroyed.

      1. Indifference is wonderful. So wonderful! I would pay to feel indifferent right not towards the situation(my x)….NC almost 2 months now,and I want to email him? Why? It’s consuming…the email thing. Indifference is so empowering. POS,btw…indifference is one of my favorite words.

  15. Thank you all for your insights! Sometimes, even after several years I still think about my sociopath. Even though I have moved on with life and another relationship. I do believe I am much stronger but jeez! Sometimes it all comes back! A trigger? I can go for quite awhile and it’s always a trigger that puts that jerk back in my head. HELP!

    1. I don’t think you can forgive until you are really over them. When you find out what they are, you need to hate them to get over them. Sites like this really helped because you realise you aren’t the only one to have fallen for a soc. But in the end, it was a relationship, the relationship ends and once the grieving process is over and you no longer have any feelings for your soc, you can forgive and move on. It isn’t easy and I imaging if my soc had been physically violent with me or my children I wouldn’t have found it so easy to forgive.
      One of the things that helps me forgive is that I’ve learnt from the experience. I know what a soc is now (I’d never had the misfortune to meet one before) and am aware of all the red flags to look for when dating a new man. I’ve no desire to end up with another one!

  16. Perfect timing as I’ve been going through the battle of what was real in the relationship and trying desperately to figure of the why’s and what if’s. Having a hard time letting go of which memories were fake and which were real! This put my thoughts into a different perspective… one that is way more positive for healing and growth! Thank you!!

  17. @positivagirl

    My ex spath wrote in the “break up ” email exactly what you wrote in this post. He wrote: “I can’t give you what you need.” Of course, he wrote it in his usual sociopath demeaning way meaning : “You are SO needy” (i.e. something is wrong with you)” BUT a lot later, I remember the words and I was thinking … yes, it is so, but with completely different meaning.He really can’t give me what I need, because I am real and I need a real thing. He left me feeling something was wrong with me, when he knows well what is wrong with him. Even to the last second, he was a dirty sociopath trying to destroy me and he always will. In the end, we can only pity them. And yes, knowing that we, our feelings, were authentic and real can make us feel proud of that, not worthless.
    Another analogy.. what you wrote about being ‘incompatible’… how funny is that “our” favorite movie was “The Mexican” with Julia Roberts … where she reads “Men who can’t love” :))) …. but again, that movie was about couple who are incompatible but who love each other, but that is NOT case with a sociopath. With sociopath there is only incompatibility in the very core of our human nature and it cannot be bridged.

    I read in the book “Why NOT just friends”… that forgiveness towards someone who hurt us can come ONLY when we are not jeopardized by that someone any more, when he can’t hurt us any more. And I am thinking that can happen only when we completely detach from the sociopath, emotionally.

    1. I really agree with you that forgiveness happens only when
      enough time of no contact passes. It has only been 6 weeks of no contact for me, and 3 months od not seeing him. We were in a 2 yr relationship, and engaged. A perfect charismatic spath. Just caught him in lies which is how I found this site. Still having a hard time and letting go enough to forgive. but I guess it hasn’t been enough time yet. He is with another woman already, which makes it harder yet. He broke up with me once to be with her for 2 months, then again a year later to be with her for 6 weeks. I think now he is with her again. Any advice on how to forgive this? Some days it tears me up.

      1. I agree with you about the time. I think right now is too soon, for you to be feeling forgiveness. You are naturally feeling hurt and betrayed. You have to allow yourself the time to hurt through this. Am sure one day if you don’t make contact he will make contact with you. So if you allow yourself time to grieve and heal, hopefully when he does you will be stronger. Try to spend time with people who really love and care about you. Old friends and family. People who love you for you. Right now is probably not the time to feel forgiveness. As you need time to heal you. You know the greatest love of all comes from within. He had nothing that you do not have within yourself. No doubt he has stripped your self esteem. Minimised you and made you feel small and worthless. Read as much as you can, learn as much as you can. So that his actions are not defining you. There is nothing wrong with you to feel hurt and sad, please make sure that you reward yourself with time of no contact. Start to love you and treat yourself as your own best friend. Small steps, one day at a time. As long as you are moving in the right direction this is all that is important. Sending you a hug for a broken heart 🙂

      2. @Julie

        Forgiving is, just like love your enemy, turn the other cheek etc. some of the aspects of Christianity, to which I am not really sure what to think. I think, like mostly everyone, that anger, hatred, resentment is not good to keep inside and we must work on getting rid of these negative thoughts. We must work on detaching from our ex spath. No contact and time will bring that. And with new knowledge and awareness we continue our lives. There are few very nice yoga exercises which I find very helpful and personally like the philosophy and meaning they carry. For example Warrior 1 pose says: I am strong, proud and centered – prepared to face all challenges with an uplifted heart. Triangle pose says: I extend fully in all directions aware of my ability to stay centered as I experience life’s twists and turns…. or as Susan Forward in her book :When your lover is a liar” says : We have to learn to trust ourselves. Here are the links :
        http://www.cohassetyogacenter.com/poses/yearone/january.html
        http://www.cohassetyogacenter.com/poses/yearone/may.html

        Sociopath hit us in the depth of our being and we must struggle to get out of it. Everybody can do it in a way that suits himself/herself best – faith, personal believes, new activities, positive thinking… all those activities that are numbered in previous posts… but one thing in common is No Contact. It really needs time but it gets better. It’s not easy being hurt, wounded but step by step keep yourself in a right direction with new knowledge and sociopath awareness (which feels like burden) but that is how it is…Allow yourself few steps back from time to time, I am still having days when I feel down and sad because of the whole spath thing, but the attachment to my ex spath has worn off…and I just keep moving on… just like they say in one yoga book: Just keep exercising, don’t think about far goal, aim…

      3. Dear positiva,
        Thank you for your kind words and advice. They are soothing to my soul on a very rough day. I am 57 and feel like this is such a bad place to be in my life at this age. And it hurts so much to know he can be with her again, for the third time, so soon after our broken engagement. He kept telling me each of the 3 times he had been with her that he had no more interst in her, that I was the one he loved, and wanted to marry. And yet, whenever we fought over the lies he had told me in the past, he would turn back to her again. He blames me for not being able to get past the dishonesty….and my “over-reaction” to the lies. It all started the night we met….he told me he had been divorced for 4 years, when in reality, he had been physically separated, and hadn’t even started the divorce process. Definitely can relate to the assessment and mirroring as early as first blind date. ( we met on a private, reputable dating website). He never was abusive, mean, or took $$$$$…. Just lies about being still married, then lies each time he would go back to the other girl. So confused , still trying to understand You are helping so many of us— many thanks. Just wish I could get over it. His being sweet, kind, loving, and providing the entire time has me so confused. Any thoughts on that? Julie

  18. This blog has been VERY helpful to me and by saying I’m not forgiving the sociopath, perhaps I should clarify because I don’t want to say that I disagree with positivagirl.

    Despite being NC for 18 months, the sociopath continues to contact me several times a year. As a result, I remain VIGILANT about his inability to truly CARE about me or my feelings. In fact, just contacting me shows that he is unwilling to move on despite my requests.

    I HAVE moved on from him, both emotionally and physically. There’s 100 miles between us and he is a married man with children (separated and living independently during our relationship). As someone mentioned above, he no doubt continues to wreck havoc upon other unsuspecting women, and although I have no interest in “warning” anyone about him, it is more important for me to remember that he is toxic and, if given the chance, he will attempt to destroy me again.

    I think if I learned he had died, I’d forgive him. But until then, I’ll do my best at remaining indifferent to him in general but consistent in my belief that he will NEVER bring anything of value to another person.

    1. Hi lacey I think it’s more about forgiving yourself. Setting yourself free from them. Their actions belong to them and not you. Yes they are liars manipulative and deceptive. This is theirs to keep, not yours. I think that was what I meant. It’s just the way that they are. They won’t and can’t change.

      1. Ahh yes forgiving ourselves … so important and so difficult too.

        For sometime I couldn’t quite excuse myself for ignoring my gut feeling that things weren’t quite kosher. And then I was annoyed that I allowed him to be, say and do things that would normally have made me run a mile.

        My therapist helped me understand my behaviour … and made it easier for me to let go of the anger I felt for myself.

        But she said the resentment and hatred I felt towards and for him was natural and acceptable. It was certainly better than missing him and longing for him.

        I understand that I was in a place in my life that made me vulnerable and caused me to brush aside my instincts and ignore my usual rules and boundaries. That made me easy prey. I have no problems identifying myself as his victim. He is a predator. Being his victim doesn’t make me weak. It makes him cruel and opportunistic. I know I’m strong and I know I’m not a victim in the sense of being helpless and defenceless. I was simply a victim in the same way one is when one is mugged or assaulted. It doesn’t make me less of a person … but it certainly makes him a big fat zero for taking advantage of me.

        🙂

  19. I agree that forgiveness can only come when you don’t feel threatened or at risk from them anymore. For me, holding a grudge is protection against getting drawn in by him again and it’s self-preservation. However, I have been able to stop over-focusing in the last few weeks, and really grieving the relationship that I had. It was real for me and it’s gone now, no matter the reason. I think there are so many facets to what happens and you have to come to these places when you are able and ready. I wish for all here to be free of the pain and betrayal and to be able to move on. I still have moments of feeling like he ended up with everything and me being alone and with nothing. But it’s not true—I have my self, still intact, though it felt like I was lost at first—but I wasn’t—my acts every day create who I am, not what he did. It’s a process though, and those moments of pain and feeling like I lost, get less and less intense and happen less often. I don’t know if forgiveness is possible or even necessary. We’ll see.

  20. Hello everyone,

    I am thankful that we are here to support each other. Positivagirl has put so much heartfelt effort into this site, and it WILL help. I am doing remarkably well. I have been here several months and have well prepared myself here for the future. A few things I would like to share from my experience:

    Time – I needed time to register what has just happened

    Study – needed to find out about psychopathy and acknowledge what it is. Once you understand who these people are, you see it really isn’t personal at all. It’s who they are, even to their own family.

    Get out of denial -” YES, he is cheating, lying, disrespecting and gaslighting me”. He lied about who he was, how he felt, his intentions etc. all manufactured. I left a few times. I finally, genuinely had my fill. This guy is like a freaky little doll from a creepy movie (looks, mannerisms, behavior, beliefs etc). We all simply need to be pushed to our limit. It was exhausting, arguing with my “imaginary boyfriend!” Lol! I finally reached my limit, praise The Lord.

    This is my personal experience. My boundaries are now protected, and I have even more healthy ones as well. No one really has a chance to cross my boundaries again. I respect myself even more. My new cell phone number makes things so nice and peaceful, since he doesn’t have it. Give yourself time and PATIENCE. Wait things out a bit longer and you will in fact get past it. Much love to all of you 🙂

    1. Haha, oh, yes.. “Manufactured” and “Imaginary Boyfriend” is exactly how it all appears once we wake up and put all the pieces together.. What the heck are people like this trying to do? No sense in asking that, it ‘s pure absurdity and nonsense for a thrill – their own personal high at the expense of another persons safety, security and sanity – it’s harmful -DANGEROUS, ABUSIVE and Ridiculous!!! It hits you hard too once it’s brought to the surface.. An incredible awakening.. One of the first things I decided upon figuring it out was how to better establish personal boundaries after this kind of experience, this was a real wake up call for me. Without a doubt I finally did have my fill, really did after finding out how the lies went way too far and he could have put my life and reputation in a bad place and the even more cruel part is he knew I was trying to recover from other similar occurrences, then pretended to be rescuer on some level while perpetrating his own game.. That can drive someone over the edge – discovering they are being deceived by multiple parties all at once or back to back, especially when that last person you think is your only hope for a safe zone, I can’t believe how with all the shock and low energy, it forced me to find a way to bounce up and start learning all I can to recover and stop this vicious cycle of attracting bad people..Considering the kind of occupation he is in, I just couldn’t believe it, he seems to have lost his senses taking the risk of leading a double life along with mind games and deception of the magnitude he was taking this too – heartbreak and shock is and understatement. I was beyond devastated and confused.. This had the potential to become public due to his position, but considering who he is and the kind of people he is employed with, it could have been quickly covered or become a big embarrassing ordeal.. Let me say, I like my privacy – couldn’t flee from that fast enough imagining what that may have potentially escalated too… Pushed me into – time to run and cut if off mode!!! It was time.. Scares me to even imagine I was keeping company with that “thing”!

  21. I hate the MOST that it has left me anxiously and outrageously over-the-top suspicious of everyone, the stories they tell, their intentions… even waste time trying to decode comments that they make that sound like jokes, so that you think its a joke, but it was actually COMPLETELY true. Yeah, he did that, a LOT. Would make sly jokes about things he was doing or things from his past, and cultivate it in a manner that sounded like a joke, and left you going “Hah, he’s just being a smart ass.” and we would both laugh.

    Except for me… all of those jokes were true, he really was lying… “in plain sight”. And it has made it nearly impossible for trust others.

    We broke up the first time in May 2013 because I caught him online “winking” at other women in an online dating site and then lying to my face about it. Within a month he had spun it to where it was clearly my fault for driving him there by asking for his time when he needed to be a recluse…. I dated others, even found a man that I loved and adored, but he ended it for reasons that had to do with not being certain he wanted to be in a relationship where children might tie him down, fine, and so I reconciled with the Sociopath… 5 weeks of lovely lies… and then he is back to cheating again and convincing me that I am his little pet-project to “fix”. In between the first and second times were together, which was about 7 months, I have been in intensive therapy, multiple prescription trials, sleeping pills, you name it… and therapy was teaching me to trust again…because without it I could not have a healthy relationship… unfortunately… it taught me to trust the very same man, again, that wreaked havoc in my life before and alienated me from everyone that I loved because they could not stand that I was no longer myself. “They will always be in your life, but you will never be in theirs.” You said in a previous post that I reblogged. I read it and cried and cried and cried… remembering all of the times he went out of town with his son to go spend time with his family and they knew nothing of my existence… I wanted desperately to be a part of it. But he wouldn’t allow it.

    Don’t get me wrong, though, you will never ever be the same after spending any amount of time loving a sociopath. That attraction, that connection is almost like an addictive drug – and addicts, even once clean, are ABSOLUTELY never the same as they were prior to….

    1. Dearest Alyssa,

      I’m deeply sorry for what you have been through. Do you remember feeling generally at ease when meeting someone, (before the spath) unless they did something shady? I NEVER desired to look at a guys computer or cell phone. Quite simply put, the spath was shady and gave reasons for our suspicion, other guys did not (at this sick level anyway).

      What is ludicrous to me is how needy they are. “He needs me, I was trained to need him, now he’s turned off, bored and discarding me” (basically how it works). Once we are healed, they are back, needy and desperate again, attempting to recycle us from their “doll collection”. No thanks! Lol

      THINK of how weak and needy they are. For us, it is TEMPORARY, even if it’s months or years. They are PERMANENTLY DEAD inside. Alyssa, we have it made! We are all here for you, anytime.

    2. @Alyssa

      I can totally relate what you wrote – my ex spath was the same about the so called JOKES, to which I used to laugh not having the slightest idea/doubt that it was actually TRUTH !! Huh, sociopaths are perverts, that’s a kind of mind perversion and they just can’t help themselves from enjoying in it !

      1. So painful… now I am confused by everyone, on a social level, when I am the least socially awkward person that I know. I am very outgoing, hold conversations with complete strangers, and am rarely confused by social situations….this one has messed me up.

  22. So a few months back I made a connection in my own mind about relating spaths similar to Terminators or using artificial intelligence to basically become our “dream partner”.

    I wrote: “A good comparison I’ve been making lately is that these creatures are Terminators. They’re not human. They’re robots, programmed to emulate us and learn with artificial intelligence to ultimately kill us. They are illusions.”

    I then saw the theatrical trailer for the movie “Her”

    (trailer)

    SPOILER ALERT!

    So after seeing the trailer I knew I had to go see the film which came out today in the States.

    Long story short the entire cycle in which sociopaths operate is personified to a tee in this film.

    First there is probing, then love bombing, gas lighting, infidelity, silent treatments, devaluation, and an eminent discarding. Funny thing is, the entire audience was in shock from the technical side of it, and yet the concept of an abusive relationship never crossed their minds.

    It was so eerie, and yet predictable to me. My understanding has only been reinforced after seeing this film. Check it out!

  23. Alyssa…I am the same way now. It sucks. Bad. It has made me suspicious of my own dog. Just kidding,but I know what you mean. I also have conversations with complete strangers. Stopped in a funky thrift store yesterday,ended up talking to the owner,whom I have never met…and as she was telling me her trials and tribulations of her life and why she was going to be closing her business,and why she couldn’t get an approval for a loan…I caught myself a. wanting to help her,and I do not have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of b. wondering if she was telling me all this,to see what she could get out of me. Its a mindfuck I tell ya. POS,I start orientation at new job Monday.

  24. It’s 4 mo NC in two days! I’m actually returning!! I’m signing a lease for house share ( 3 mo trial, nice people!) I know I am recovering because I am starting to get back in touch with my own needs– and I’m finding out that I am so much more able to identify & communicate my needs with even more self honesty & trust ( in God) — lots of prayer though before every decision as it takes longer for me to process and make decision– I really think things through– andante sure I’m living in my truth– and others honor that. I have a denial detector that is very sensitive– for myself & others.

    I just started to be able to focus on job search as I have gotten my parents more home health care– and feel peace that I stayed to be present & now can leave with peace too 😉 I have been witnessing so many happy reversals since Christmas Eve– truly moved through withdrawls — that was the toughest time– and really at the 3mo point– they say it takes 3mo to break or start a habit!!

    I’m starting to have more interactions socially with men, gradually– I was so scared & unable too over the last 4 mo-/ so I’m seeing so much more healthy recovery & healing– I’m more in my own life– so dang interesting how hard it is to refocus on own dreams, goals etc after soc inserted himself all over it while I was on outside of his. So weird and soo good to be taking charge & living life again! Thank you Pos & ladies. & gents here. I’m poring myself into job search so not able to post as often but still praying for all –Blessed Be , EL

    1. El, thank you for your ever so encouraging post. It gives me so much hope that the pain will end with time. Feeling lost and like an empty shell now, but can see far enough ahead that things will get better…especially when I read posts like yours. Sooo happy for you!

      1. Hi Julie
        It will be three months tomorrow since my ex broke up with me. And it’s been a little under three months of NC. Last night I cried some angry tears and had an overwhelming urge to send him a few choice words by text. I don’t even know if he has the same number but that wasn’t the point. I just wanted to vent, but I told myself to sleep on the urge and deal with it when I woke up. When I woke this morning the urge was gone.

        The bad days are getting further and further apart for me, and they will for you too. I am now in the anger stage of the process, and I believe I’m at the tail-end of that. I find myself suddenly noticing that I’m not even thinking about him anymore and then when I test myself and try to think of him, it’s all hazy and impossible to dwell on.

        My therapist says my mind is refocusing, searching for a new beginning to zoom into. It’s a relief to be at this stage. When I was crying every day and longing for him, and wanting to be with the person he actually never was, I didn’t think I’d ever get beyond it. The thing is, I’ve been through breakups before so I knew that the pain would pass eventually. The problem was that none of the previous breakups were with people who had set out to deliberately manipulate and deceive me. I knew this was an added challenge because he was a sociopath, or at very least a person with psychological problems. However, I’m thankful to say that I seem to be dealing with things well.

        You aretoo and you WILL overcome this dark period and be back to normal in time. It will just take a while, and til you are over this bad patch it will seem impossible that you will ever be happy again. All I can say is that you must do whatever it takes to make you feel happy and strong. No Contact is very important and CRUCIAL. Other than that, I feel different things work for different people.

        For me, talking to friends helped. And I exchanged emails with someone on this site, and emailing her helped too. I also found that it was important for me to have a daily routine that would symbolise removing him from my life. Every morning I would burn incense sticks. I would then write down what he was and what I wished for him. Then I would burn the pieces of paper and collect the ashes in an envelope. After two months of doing this, I sent the ashes to him. For me this symbolised me returning to him all the negativity he gave to me. Does that sound crazy to you? Well, it helped me and that was all that mattered.

        Try to figure out what would help you. No one is allowed to judge the way you deal with your grief. Just so long as your actions don’t hurt you or others, I believe it’s fine. Focus on things that will empower you and make you strong.

        You will be fine. You will. Believe that.

        Love and Peace

        OneRedFlower

      2. To 1REDFLOWER
        Hi….thanks for your heartfelt response! I am now about 2 months out since no contact. Doing a little better some days, but others are not so good. I am pretty sure he is back with the co- worker of his, otherwise he would have contacted me by now. Thinking of them together is so difficult, as I remember all the fun times and tender moments, the wedding planning, etc. I am thankful we r separated by 90 miles so I don’t have to run into them. It makes me angry and devastated at the same time that he moved on without skipping a beat, leaving me feeling alone and devastated. I also wonder why she took him back for the third time…..in the last 2 yrs, he was with her 2 mos, then 6 weeks a year later. She knows he has lied to both of us in the past, and that he dumped her each time to come back to me…I don’t get why she would do it again. I guess it shouldn’t matter, but everything I understand helps me progress a bit.
        I do have a couple of good friends that I can talk to….it helps, altho unlike us, they haven’t been thru it so their understanding of how we feel is limited. You and the others are a blessing here for me. Sometimes I have dreams about him and I , or him and her, then can’t get back to sleep. I have no desire to contact him , but sometimes I wish he cared or missed me enough to at least try to contact me. I know this sounds weird….does it make any sense to you? My soc was never mean or after $$$$… Just a liar. Had a deathly fear of being alone, so always jumped from her to me and back again, when I would “overreact to his lies”. See see clearly now the assessment, mirroring, love bombing, moving fast with ” I love you”. Something just didn’t seem right in the beginning, but I moved past that feeling, unfortunately.
        I am happy your days are getting better. You have learned so much and are a great source of understanding and encouragement to others. I warn to do the same for you and others on my own journey and recovery. Let’s keep talking and sharing….it helps like nothing else can! Peace and love, julie

      3. Hi Julie
        I know exactly how you feel when you say you wish you meant enough to them for them to try to contact you.

        It’s hard to realise that they are able to move on so easily, but the reason they do is not because they are stronger or are better than us. You know how people go from one relationship to the next? It allows them to stay just plug the hole, so to speak, instead of repairing the leak.

        As you say, your ex is with someone else and is unable to be alone. Being alone takes strength. You have to be self-sufficient and these psychos aren’t. They take our strength — they feed on it.

        It’s important that we don’t jump into another relationship — we need to heal first and healing means gaining in strength and becoming whole again … which sociopaths never are,

        But … yes, it does feel terrible that they can just walk away. We must, however, keep reminding ourselves that it’s not a reflection on us, but on them: They are dealing with everything in the short term. They are sustaining themselves artificially, feeding off yet another victim. We miss them and feel the loss because we are normal, caring, loving people.

        I still experience short periods of extreme irritation thinking about how unfeeling and uncaring my ex is. But I realise as time goes on that I am definitely healing because I feel less and less inclined to think about or talk about him.

        It’s a great feeling and I’m looking forward to the day when he is no longer of any significance in my life — not long now, I’m sure! Not long for you too, I’m certain.

        Tomorrow begins the Lunar Year of the Horse. I’m wishing you a Happy New Year and the beginning to a brighter time.

        Lots of love
        1RedFlower

      4. Hi Julie,
        You will go through so many stages in your healing process. It’s impossible to say what you will experience and how long it will take. But I’m sure that we all wished we could just turn a switch in our brains and hearts. It is so overwhelming, painful and confusing at first. Be patient with yourself. My biggest problem was just obsessing about him and how he made me feel. Even when I could put a name to all the lies, control, manipulation, I chose to remember the good things. It’s so hard cuz OUR
        emotions were real. There’s such a disconnect between what we felt and how we were actually treated. I think that’s why moving on is so hard. I’m almost 1 year out and still struggling to not look at what he has posted just for me on his FB. Just keep trying, be patient, don’t be too hard on yourself, and be good to yourself (health etc). And most of all NC is crucial. Hugs.
        Peace n Serenity

      5. It is so hard not to obsess about all of the good times… And envisioning him with a new person so soon….hurts like crazy. Trying to find a way to make it not hurt so much.

    2. Empathetic Love, what a wonderful, inspiring post! I congratulate you on your progress and can feel your positivity through your words- it feels good to read it!

      I have had a wonderful burst of clarity and a fantastic day today! I feel so much good fortune awaits us all on here and helping each other through the days & confusion! I may have regressed a bunch during the holidays, as you say it is a tough time of year, but each day an extra minute of daylight seems to brighten the path ( at least for us in the northern hemisphere)! Thanks everybody, bless this and every new day!
      Peace

    3. EL,
      I am immensely happy for you. We have talked here many times. You were always helpful and spent a lot of time in your responses. It was so badly needed.

      You have reached many milestones. Every day, week, month is a wonderful accomplishment. Everyone has or will have something that just “clicks” one day where enough is enough.

      I was extremely fortunate to observe red flags early on. Researching “symptoms”. I weaned myself off of him, without him even realizing it. I haven’t seen him in 3 months, but talked and texted two weeks ago. He was a madman with abusive words. It helps me when he acts like that. Reinforcement! Lol. One thing I’ll never forget, we had a really great night in the very beginning. At the end of the night he gave a very long, evil, angry stare (the opposite look of the entire night ). I did not look away, but felt like I was being “eaten “. Bizarre as livid hell. Glad it’s over for you and me. Praise God!

      1. Once after I was physical with the soc, he literally climbed out of bed saying, “Now, get off me.” I just stared at him and said, “What did you just say?” He laughed it off, that it was a joke. I let him know if he ever wanted to see me again, I would never hear words like that out of his mouth following intimacy. Sometimes I think if I’d just let him be him, I could’ve accepted getting rid of him sooner. I guess I molded him, but he still couldn’t keep up his act consistently.

      2. Jusagirl,

        I am sorry for all you must have been through. What bizarre experiences we had to endure. You have always supported me here with heartfelt responses. It has helped me immensely. I am here for you too. This is how we heal and prepare for our future. We are doing well 🙂

    4. Amen, yeah this whole process has really helped me find myself again. I’m kinda lucky I was a transitional target and not a long term one. She actually convinced me to take a job 1,000 miles away which ended the relationship ship. Married a foreigner 5 months later, after telling me she had commitment issues everyday for 6 months. So I made it out without getting ruined financially. I feel so empowered and stronger now. My perception of the world has completely changed. I’ve come to the realistic and inconvenient truth, that not all people are inherently good. I’m also grateful to have learned this lesson early in life. In fact I’m sure we can attest that some are actually inherently evil. I think it’s a lot easier to become spiritual and believe in God when you’ve stared the Devil in the face.

  25. Hi Everone,

    New here – stumbled across this blog last night from a link on PsychopathFree (FB) and I was up all night reading the posts and comments. I find it fascinating that our stories are the same, only the details are different. I’m so thankful for all of your comments. We can all relate and it helps to know WE ARE NOT ALONE! Regular people just cannot fathom what we’ve been through unless they’ve walked in our shoes. I still hear “Wow! You’re not over that/him yet?”

    If we are completely honest with ourselves, the biggest disconnect is how the devil made us feel. I was flying! How he made me feel was my drug! There’s a song that perfectly described it (Evanescence -Wake me up). He woke me up inside. When all of the bad stuff started happening, my bullshit meter went off, but I was addicted to how I felt and completely discounted the red flags as big as Texas. Which brings me to my new cardinal rule: When people show you who they really are, believe them.
    Thankfully, he began pressuring me to marry him, which FORCED me to end our relationship, because despite how toxic we had become, I was addicted and who knows how long I would have hung on. When forced to marry him or not, I chose to let him go. Although it was nightmarish, I feel lucky to have escaped relatively unscathed. However, I had many unanswered questions; why,why,why??? I have found the answers – it was from the devil. I can now name it, explain it, understand it and move on.
    I don’t feel bad, ashamed’ embarrassed or anything directed at myself. Please don’t do that to yourselves. My goal is to find that feeling again – within, not from and outside source. Be strong and don’t obsess … The best revenge is living well.

    1. Peacenserenity,

      Welcome! You have come to the right place to help heal, and prepare for your future. Everyone heals in their own time, and you sound like you’re doing quite well. I’ve been here for months and I am doing great because of it. Keep up the good work.

  26. bunny, Nick, eda, Julie-

    Thank you for walking with me & witnessing the pain & recovery 😉

    It’s really true that posting our journey & encouraging each other is doubly healing! My healing progressed from a crazy person in a hot mess to compassionate lover of truth — from reading, sharing, posting, being encouraged here–and encouraging others along with the the holy grail of NC!! I don’t look at his picture or read his letters or google–it is done! I occasionally send up a prayer and leave any thought or feeling immediately to Sacred Heart.

    I see how much I needed to & learned how to be truly loving, compassionate & forgiving of myself– my heart muscle expanded forced at first — by being broken& betrayed–but then naturally from identification & shared prayers & community love– then taking it from here to others & day to day events– I’m so much more honest with myself about what I really feel & need–and getting to truth of others as well with acceptance & compassion. I got lost & confused as all the focus was on soc on this totally weird subliminal way. Now I feel like I have been pushed to solidify , identify, ask for & accept outcome of truth as it is now– not in the future, past or ideally in my fantasy–I’m no longer running away to or from dreams–I’m very slowly, living them step by step, day by day with so much more trust in God– he has shown me so clearly through this experience how he protrected me & with prayer is providing for every need ( not want) I will no longer seek a man to rescue me or pretend to provide/dream or promise/- I already have a man I can trust to do all of it and that Man is Jesus with the help of my heavenly Mother & all the holy angels. I trust that only He can guide me and bless me with a healthy good man– I just have to continue to learn to love myself–love bombing me in the way that heals! And follow the path that has heart– testing & taking time to listen to my gut/heart/intuition– honoring whatever the outcome is — if I need to run so be it — if it’s safe to embrace Amen. Thy will be done not mine.

    I am filled with such gratitude for getting through the other side– some days it felt like I would never return and the pain of deception would scar me for life– but I sincerely don’t feel that now. I do feel like I matured some, grew more savvy & a touch skeptical ( healthy dose for me as can be very trusting) — I feel like I have even greater capacity to love though at first I thought my heart shrunk & froze. It thawed and is brightly warming & beginning to know joy again. I do feel more freedom & more real & solid–like the soc highlighted little kinks in the system– that were pretty good but could be even better 😉 I also have so much gratitude that I am capable of love & forgiveness ( for self & others) I contribute 99% to community/ reaching out to others & a very rich, deep & daily prayer life ( for self & others)

    Just keep the faith, keep putting one foot in front of the other do the next right thing, stay NC no matter what & celebrate each day with thanksgiving as you are actively loving & healing yourself– choosing love by NC. Feel all your feelings head on so you can move through them– otherwise you may get stuck or find another Soc. Stay true to yourself first & foremost so you don’t fall prey to silver tongue devil!! Run don’t walk from anything that is not love, truth or organic beauty 🙂 WE get each other better than ever-and I can say that my heart has been moved, touched & healed by all our interactions & the good people I have met recently 😉 love & peace be with you & in your homes EL

  27. Jusa

    Remember who you really are:

    The Beautiful & Be-Loved Daughter of the King of Kings!

    Miracles happen- believe! EL

  28. A good comparison I’ve been making lately is that these creatures are Terminators. They’re not human. They’re robots, programmed to emulate us and learn with artificial intelligence to ultimately kill us. They are illusions.”

    I then saw the theatrical trailer for the movie “Her”

    (trailer)

    SPOILER ALERT!

    So after seeing the trailer I knew I had to go see the film which came out today in the States.

    Long story short the entire cycle in which sociopaths operate is personified to a tee in this film.

    First there is probing, then love bombing, gas lighting, infidelity, silent treatments, devaluation, and an eminent discarding. Funny thing is, the entire audience was in shock from the technical side of it, and yet the concept of an abusive relationship never crossed their minds.

    It was so eerie, and yet predictable to me. My understanding has only been reinforced after seeing this film. Check it out!

    1. Omg,

      Your killing me with the Terminator analogy. Ordered book, should be here any day! A few other good reads are

      Telling Lies – Paul Ekman –

      Halfway through it.
      And

      What EveryBody is Saying – Joe Navarro – haven’t read – it’s next.

      1. lol killing you in a good way or a bad way?

        Thanks for the references I’ll check them out! I’m now starting to read “Snakes in Suits” which is co-written by Dr. Hare who actually instituted the psychopath litmus test. So far so good.

      2. lol glad to hear it. Yeah People of the Lie is really great! Let me know what you think. Yeah I do have a little too much time on my hands lol, but hoping that will change soon.

      3. @normalisboringsoiheard

        I read the Joe Navarro’s book and it’s really good. Nicely written. How did you like Paul Ekman’s book? It’s on my list as one of next books…

      4. @Caerra

        Sorry it took so long to respond – kids touch my stuff (let it fall, don’t put it back, then I can’t find it, grrr). I couldn’t remember the name of the first Paul Ekman book

        Emotions Revealed, it’s good – it goes into how each person basically has a pattern of what they do even if they are ever so controlled, something gives them away. Or just stupid. My son (he’s 10, told me this when he was 8 “Mama, you know Daddy stutters when he lies”. Wow! In my opinion Daddy has NS traits. I am in the process of reading “Telling Lies”, where he goes into how he figured out how to read people, I guess.

  29. I don’t like this post. I know a lot about personality disorders, and saying someone with anti-social personality disorder (common name sociopathy or psychopathy) hurts and abuses people because that is just how they are and they can’t help it is like saying a drug addict uses drugs because that is just who they are and they can’t help it. That is no excuse. A drug addict may crave a hit everyday for the rest of their life, but I choose not to take one. Some have to make that choice every day. A sociopath and choose not to hurt people and to funnel that boredom and narcissism into specific outlets. They don’t have to act out.

    What I felt in the relationship was real, but I wasn’t feeling it for a person that actually existed. I loved somebody who I thought existed and he didn’t, it was all a facade. There may have been very real amorous feelings for the character he played but it was just a character. And all of those feelings were based on his lying and pretending. Loving a fictional character is not real love. It is an imagined love. I only imagined there was something very special between us, that thing was not really there. If he was “looking for whatever it was that they wanted out of the relationship,” then he was not loving me, for love was not what he wanted. And that is what our relationship was built on. If the love wasn’t there, there was no relationship. Just a pretense of one.

    He did not just fake compatibility and to assert so is insulting to the women that he has destroyed. He faked everything. It was too complete of a lie for me to perceive. It’s a forgiving-ish attempt to assure myself that it wasn’t complete betrayal that is exactly what will send me back into his clutches. We did not split because we were incompatible. We split because he ripped my heart up into pieces, didn’t feel the smallest twinge of regret about it, and now laughs it off.

    Focusing on the fakery does not keep me in the role of a victim. Choosing to be a victim is all that will keep me in the role of a victim. Focusing on the fakery enables me to believe that I did not really lose what I think I lost. I will find something better, because what I had was something terrible. A rape or violence victim can be incredible empowered individuals on a level many others don’t get to ever become. That, however, does not undo the simple fact that at one time they were a victim of a terrible crime.

    What is right is that the experience doesn’t have to be a pointless exercise. Hopefully I learned enough from this that I won’t let it happen again. Hopefully I get that chance someday. Hopefully someday I will be able to trust enough again. There are lots of things in life that we wish we didn’t have to go through, but as a very dear wise friend of mine says, “You will know you have healed when you can be grateful for the experience.” We will always wish that we learned the lesson in some easier way, but we can be grateful that we got to learn it at all. Maybe it will help us avoid something painful being repeated in the future. Maybe we get to help someone else avoid something painful or help them heal from their pain.

    It is true that long-term focus on the betrayal and hurt may keep you in a position of giving that person power over you to keep causing you pain long after they are gone. They are not thinking of you, and they do not deserve to be thought of. They certainly don’t deserve to be missed. Realizing how fake everything was also makes this betrayal less personal. He wasn’t out to get you. He didn’t care enough about you to care how he effected you. For me, this lessens the pain.

    1. Hi Carrie I’m glad to see in not the only one who feels this way. It’s important to me to be clear abt the facts. Incompatibility is NOT the reason for my heartbreak. I’ve been in incompatible relatiobships before. Incompatibility is not something anyone can help. Lying and manipulating are deliberate acts. I won’t let him off the hook with incompatibility. Anyway I’ve already written my comments when this post first appeared so I won’t repeat myself.

      I do want to say though that you’re right … healing will be indicated by the ability to appreciate aspects of the experience. It has to come naturally though. And I don’t believe misleading ourselves with ‘incompatibility’ reasoning will speed up the process.

      Cheers
      OneRedFlower

      1. The post doesn’t say the person wasn’t a liar, manipulati’ve and deceptive. It says that focusing on this will only hurt you more. It’s focusing on what they have done to you. Truth is it is incompatibility. You are honest they are dishonest. You gave they took. You want to build they want to destroy. This is incompatibility. You want a loving honest relationship. They can’t really offer you this. I do think how you view this depends on where you are in the healing process. I split with my ex a lot of times. The first I was so devastated due to the fact everything was a lie. Later it wasn’t like that. I knew. So therefore it was my decision. We had a lot that we were compatible with. But the crazy psycho patterns of behaviour is what made us incompatible. I wouldn’t have said the same thing 18 months ago. Perhaps it’s a normal part of healing to feel that way. Later you just feel indifference and realise it’s just the way that they are. This makes it not about you, and what they have done to you. It’s about them. Truth is that even If the socio thought a lot of you they would still repeat patterns as that is just the way that they are. This doesn’t (in my mind) minimise experiences. Instead it normalises the experience. When I focused on faking I focused on what was done to me. This hurt more. This is how it feels to me personally anyway.

    2. Your last few sentences say it all! The betrayal is completely personal to us, and yet at the same time completely impersonal. Not to excuse their terrible behavior, but every victim literally experiences the same thing. These predators are as consistent as gravity. It’s really like being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The outcome is the same in every relationship. We know how this movie ends.

    3. @Carrie

      I like what you wrote ” Focusing on the fakery enables me to believe that I did not really lose what I think I lost.” I guess only after we pass that phase and we really detach from the ex spath, we can feel indifference,when the memory of the spath experience will not hurt. But in that time we will have new things and experiences in our lives. Who will think about the ex spath in that time anyway! He will be forgotten! But the experience with spath made us learn so many new things (unfortunately unpleasant about the world-how people lie and pretend and fake SO much) but also it will make us see how good it is that we are not like that, we can appreciate more ourselves and our peace, peace of an honest and sincere heart and mind.

    1. Mean? Oh well, in the spirit of Disney! I leaned over to my daughter and said, “oh my doesn’t _____ remind you of Daddy, you know soo handsome and charming?” I laughed, she punched me in the arm. But she didn’t say “no he’s not”. Lol, this was 10mins before the ending.

  30. Just a thought, when a NS takes their mask off and is their “true self” is there someone out there truly compatible with them? I’ve seen my ex with his mask off, eww. No wonder he has to pretend to be what everyone else wants, he real self is horrible.

    NIBSIH.

    1. I don’t know, well I guess so. It depends on the person. I think of a couple who post on sociopath world forum. She knows who he is and it seems to work for them. Then there are the people who have their own issues. Co dependency borderline etc. Some are in relationships for 20 years or more. Must be some reason for that??

      1. Yeah I think so. Also remember there are different types. (I dated a few). Some people would be bored dating normal (haha I just saw your name as I typed that lol). Some people like a bit of crazy makes them feel better about themselves. Some people choose to live life on the merry go round, it’s safe stable and boring, others live on the roller coaster with all the highs and lows. Some people like the adrenaline rush. Some people don’t mind having a good fight. Everyone is different. Also I believe that those that challenge us most also give us the greatest growth. I learned more about myself with the charismatic socio than at any time in my life. We had a lot of fun. We are all different I think while people might like to see themselves as normal most people have an issue of somekind. Depends whether those issues are compatible. There is a couple who post (married) on sociopath world. They say they are happy ?? It must exist as spending 20 years with someone is a really long time. Must be some good times or why stay? Someone can’t fake for 20 years (or they wouldn’t to me) I knew those first six months just didn’t want It to be true.

      2. I know “People are Strange”. My ex – he held the mask from 2000 until 2007, when we separated. Then BOOM, the DEMON arrived! I was spared no mercy, discard and devalued all in one fell swoop, from Prince Charming to the Prince of Evil, in 2 hours, I was not to know the true extent of his evilness, for several more years. It takes all kinds of people, I guess if it makes you happy, fine, but I was not happy, and I don’t like being lied to, then to be told “I never loved you”. I am still trying to find a legal loop hole, to sue him for that! Lol!

      3. Also what about karmic lessons? Thinking say an emotionally abusive narcissist who is seduced by a charismatic sociopath for example. Or a person who is ripped off financially, but they don’t care about financial things. The old guy who dates the young sexy gold digger. You know what I mean? Sometimes it’s obvious. Sometimes it’s agreed. So many different situations. The old guy who is rich, why else does he think the 21 year old stunning model is in his life? …. Sometimes people agree trade offs. This is compatibility. Sometimes not. People in it long term. Nobody could say they were deceived for 20 years. I would find that odd, if it were that bad for that long, did the person have co dependency. Some people don’t mind living the fake fairy tale, as its better than dealing with reality. Others don’t. When it happens to someone who is vulnerable. That is sick. Abuse. But even then there might be a trade off. Like with my ex and bank etc. It upset me. But I also got something too. It also strengthens you. Prior to him I was terrible with money he taught me to be more careful with finances and less trusting. Thinking about it I gave him my cash card and pin to get money out for me!! As I trusted him. So it was either incompatible, a life lesson, or a trade off (this is what makes sense to me)

      4. lol I guess it’s possible. I still think these types have too much narcissism inside themselves, even if they’re with a narc to not get bored. I’ve always personally felt that narcissism is merely an overcompensation for major insecurity. They just loved getting their ego stroked too much to stay with one person. They’re also very arrogant which I think makes them get sloppy and eventually caught.

      5. I understand, life lessons, but dang, I watch my ex, he is putting every women since me in ruin also. I lost soo much money, but what’s worse was how I felt at the time, and how he went about attacking me, (how he still attempts to, annoying). I agree some of it was my love for him, but why should this be held against me? We were married, had two babies. He just wanted to deplete me of every penny I had. He would of done whatever to do it, so long as he had whatever he wanted. As soon as this was accomplished, I was kicked to the curb!

    1. I could see that, but yeah definitely need it from somewhere. Still they’re parasites. I would have to think they would abuse their “loved one” regardless. I mean I think all their relationships are consistently this way. I remember my spath mentioning her having “frienemies”. People of the Lie delves into enemies a bit too in the chapter of Charlene. I think it goes back to the old adage “keep your friends close and your enemies closer”. After all the closest person to a spath is in fact their personal partner. They “love us” and yet they hate us because we are everything they’re not.

    2. Like be a salesman or a defense lawyer. You have to be cold and cruel to do well in those professions. Sucks for the people who lose out in those situations as well, but nobody goes to a used car lot or to court expecting to be loved and respected. The role is clear from the beginning. Its not exactly a betrayal. Also, they can do reckless activities that endanger themselves for the adrenalin rush. Still not healthy, but they are not destroying someone else.

  31. Just wondering ….

    Has anyone read the Betrayal Bond by Patrick Carnes?

    I’d be curious if anyone found it helpful– I’m going to check it out– though right now I’m being light & breezy with my reads–the psychobabble is revealing but it’s been so exhausting to process — a little at a time— nonetheless I always dig in to answer my questions & heal the wounds–

    It has come highly recommended from a friend, I have not read it yet– have been told it is about identifying & changing dangerous bonding — seems like a good idea to me! EL

  32. I came across this blog, because I googled something that came into my head last night…my knight in shining armor turned out to be the village idiot on a jack ass. Then I read what you’ve been through. I was flabbergasted, I saw my life, my husband too has had and lost so many jobs, I can’t even count. The lies, are endless. I feel I have to record him so he remembers what he says to me. He always denies everything, and it’s always someone else’s fault. Ive baled him out so many times. Whenever he gets a new job, I’m supposed to leave mine to “take care of him” , then I kick myself, I fall for it ever time, thinking this time it will be better. We also lost a child in 2010 our 24 year old son. My daughter lives in the UK, and were supposed to plan a wedding for her. Now what do I say to her, your dad lost another job, I can’t afford it? At this point Ill work at McDonald’s , I have to give her this. My car was reposesed yesterday, I had no clue that was gonna happen. We will probably lose the house too. Ive finally had enough. After my daughters wedding next Sept, I’m done, 2 month shy of 30 years of lies. Not to mention he hasn’t even wanted me in the past 6 years.
    Thanks you for putting a name to what I’ve been doing, and putting up with. Bless

    1. Parrotheadz, I wanted to send you a huge hug!! My daughter also died in 2010 (I was told that she died 4 years ago tomorrow) – my daughter was a baby. But my cousin died suddenly aged 24 in 07. No mother should ever attend the funeral of her child.

      Have you been supported through this? Or have you simply been taking care of him and his needs? I understand how they keep taking and taking – and you are left picking up the pieces. 30 years is a very long time. Welcome to the site 🙂

  33. If people wonder why I stayed in this relationship, because for many years I felt sorry for him and thought I could “make him happy” , but also for the 3 children, he is a good father.

  34. Positivagirl, I saw your post in my email blog where you were going to take some time off to focus on the loss of your child, and I am so sorry that you are having to be there. What a hard place to be in, I am single, and can’t imagine. I think you somewhat know that I have had to deal with many personal losses myself so I can relate to those feelings at least.

    So I will comment on your last few posts on this particular thread, which made me feel so much better about my acceptance of my situation and the strength it gives me. Sure, I’ve royally missed up allowing my spath back into my world, but I think only I know it’s on my terms. I posted on another thread tonight to a girl that was left hanging and her story was oh so familiar. I hope she reads it as what I am going through is what you are, and her, and him, etc. It is wild how we all share this common connection of these crazy lovers we came in contact with. They are like the swine flu, one minute you’re fine and bam! Fever.

    But you humanize us all as victims and, unlike your recent posts about so-called “Dr. Phil”, you make us not feel guilty about tripping up and falling for them all over again. Some can be so cunning and convincing after a bout of NC. Mine played into the whole xmas thing to make it sound like I was special and he needed me back in his life. I practiced NC for almost a month, but soon relented because I just was going bonkers without any loving, even though I know it is all fake.
    We deal with the pseudolove so long that at least for me, it is still better than nothing. Does that make sense? Am I being naive to think it really is on my terms this time? I think it was jusagirl who told me recently ( when I admitted to these feelings/actions) that I was headed for a terrible fall. But how? I know what I am dealing with, I am using HIM, this time. I am convinced I can pull it off until I can get more time under my belt and perhaps meet someone new. I know, I know- you and everyone else would not recommend this, but it’s the only way I can figure out to keep myself from going nuts. I do love him ( the little parts of his personality that I enjoy and of course, the physical connection). I think many of us on here are addicted to the physical aspect of our love’s as I have read that spaths can be astute lovers!
    It’s weird- I have never met anyone that can push my buttons like he knows how to do. Is that mirroring? Does that mean that I am actually a great lover after all? LOL

    Well, I am okay today, right now. I know blogging on here and everyone sharing has made me feel much better. Any new readers on here I think you should feel totally welcome in sharing. None of us will judge you- none of us can judge as we have all walked the same path.
    There is something wonderfully awesome in the power of that. Thanks positivagirl- God bless you on your loss and hope you are back soon!
    Peace

    1. Just going through my comments EL I have no idea if I replied to your very kind comment. THANK YOU for your beautiful heart and for sharing this really kind comment.

      With regard to ‘never meeting someone who can press your buttons like he can’. I can’t say this is true scientifically, but spiritually, I do believe that everything in life happens for a reason. You say about the mirroring…. maybe he can just naturally do this, and it might not seem like it now, but it might be spiritual growth?

      They say that some people come into our life as blessings, others as lessons. I have dated people who constantly press my buttons and wind me up, and cause misery and anxiety. Hopefully this is teaching you what you DON’T want, so that you can be very clear about what you DO want. Too often, we focus too much on what we don’t want and then attract it towards us again. Maybe by going through something so horrible and hurtful, you might say ‘enough’…. and finally know exactly what it is that you want, and focus your energy towards this.

      Thank you for being part of this site, everybody who posts, really does make it a beautiful place.

  35. Hello,
    I am left reeling from the relationship I was involved in. I was with him for 3 years and during that time the highs were higher than I had ever experienced and the lows were the lowest. I should have run after I found out that he was married with a newborn and he hid it from me, but at that point I was blind and in love. I can honestly say he was the first person I gave myself to completely both emotionally and physically. I was far from perfect in the relationship and now I’m left wondering about a lot of what-ifs. What if I had moved in with him, what if I spent more time with him, what if I had taken that trip with him, spent less time with family & friends and made him #1 in my life like he had made me in his, maybe we would still be together. He broke up with me last January, however, he never stopped contacting me and the last time we saw one another was this past August. He kept coming back and telling me he wanted to work things out and the one time I said ok I’m willing to try to do everything you want and how you want it, he didn’t show up because he said he didn’t believe me because I had reneged on moving in with him 2X and he couldn’t trust me. He wanted me to prove myself and my love for him because he said I was incapable of being an adult and a loving partner because I put my family, friends, and job above him.

    Fast forward to now, I’m still in pain and I am paralyzed by the feeling of loss and sadness I feel. He’s moved in with a female “friend” and I know that he started seeing her while he was with me. He won’t disclose her name and address, and then tells me that it’s none of my business because we are no longer together but he went out of his way to tell me about how she was there for him unlike me and he refuses to stay away from me, ie., to not call, email, text, or send letters to my house. He pops in and out and it hurts me all over again. I have him blocked but he uses different numbers or old emails and every time it hurts me all over again. He has destroyed possessions and has physically and emotionally abused me and he has even spit on me. Why do I want him back? Why do I miss him? Why do I think I will never find anyone who loved me or made me feel the things I felt with him? I cannot sleep and cannot focus on my job. My thoughts are plagued by how happy I think he is with her- living, sleeping, and sharing their lives the way he had wanted to do with me. I’m jealous of her and how good he must be treating her and I’m lonely and miserable. He’s moved on and happy and I’m stuck. Any comments would be appreciated.

    1. Dearest Jennifer,

      Welcome! I am deeply sorry you had to be involved with this type of person, like all of us here. My opinion: what you are going through is a TEMPORARY addiction. Its as if we were brainwashed in some way. I’m serious. (I had a great night in the beginning with him, but at the very end he gave the most crazy, angry evil stare I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. It’s as if I was being EATEN ALIVE). I believe this is a technique, but idk.

      You need to STAY NC. Also, I know this is difficult, but please…wait and suffer a bit through the WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS. I was addicted myself, mainly physically. Major anxiety. I would get tremors waiting for his next call or text. SICK. Anyway, if I can wait it out, withdrawal patiently and diligently, talk with everyone here for support, and study what these monsters are…you can wait it out too. Be kind to yourself, with love and patience. Do not be an A, B, C, or any other type of SIDE CHICK! You are not one of his dolls in his COLLECTION. You are special. Keep posting here and find relaxing peaceful things to turn to during temporary weak moments. They pass! 😉

      1. Bunnyshy, I’ve been trying to get over the withdrawal phase. I’m writing again because it has been unbelievably difficult. He called and left me a vm crying telling me that he loves me and even after all the bad things I did to him, he still loves me. He even had nerve to be upset that I did not wish him a happy birthday for his birthday last week. Even though he is blocked, he can still leave voice messages. I can’t take it. I emailed him and told him to stop contacting me and to leave me alone. He called my job and I could not even respond to the nonsense he was spouting because I had people surrounding me. He told me to not send him things telling him to leave me alone, that he wasn’t even in the state, and that didn’t spend his birthday with the person he’s been living with. Why can’t I let go? Why do I feel so low that he’s happy and moved on and I still long for him? I’ve been in pain and turmoil because a mutual friend told me that he saw him going to a gynecologist’s office with her and that she might be pregnant. I cried all night thinking that she was going to get what I wanted and they would be starting a happy family together. He doesn’t give a crap so why do I? Why do I want to believe he loves me and wants to come back? Why does he say it if he doesn’t mean it? He’s with her because she let him move into her place because he can’t afford his own and by doing so he is able to file for custody of his son from the person he was with before me. I’m so devastated and am torn being hating him and wanting him to come back to me. I’m not proud of what I’m saying and how I can’t seem to let go.

    2. He is not treating her better. He is not happier with her. And she is not better than you in some way. This is what I have to repeat to myself over and over. He is doing the exact same thing to the new girl that he did with you. He has changed targets, but he will not change his game. Everything he has done to you he will now do to her. She is not some better person that will get the things you wanted but couldn’t have. If anything, she is to be pitied. Because she is in for the same shit you got.

      1. Jennifer, Carrie & Bunny–

        Sisters all of you– the strength in each post to be repeated — doesn’t matter what stage of recovery — got to keep it green for strength to move forward, know we are not alone, and reinforce truth- THANK You– oh walking through really is eye opener each & EVERY time. Gratitude & peace be with you ladies– Jennifer– NC one day at a time! EL

  36. Bunnylove, Emphatic Love, and Carrie- thank you so much for your posts. To tell you all the truth rereading your posts is what has helped me try to get through this all. Everyday is a battle and the pain is there, I’m trying to take it step by step.

  37. I am truly grateful for this site. I separated from my fiancé in October and after that all hell broke loose. Found out about the other women and was extremely hurt by the actions of my fiancé and I found this site and help me to deal with the pain I was going through. It’s been several months and my ex had been leaving me alone every once in a while he would call and leave me nasty message, but I was also still trying to figure out what happened with us and how he could easily move on with someone else, I felt replaced and as if our relationship was all a lie. I spent months crying and feeling do depressed and he just was going about his life, I even heard he went yo Puerto Rico got married. With the support of family and friends and this site I have gotten the strength to move forward in my life and I am feeling so much better about my situation and I am taking care of me for a change. I have been doing NC for the last month, however he finally wore me down and I spoke with him, because he sent me a message that he had cancer so I talked to him two weeks ago, since than he’s been calling and I spoke to him one other time and told him that I wish him the best but they we have to move on and that I needed him to let me how and let me live my life I thought that would get to him but instead he is still calling and he sent the email below. As I read it, he telling me everything that I have been encouraging him to do for the past couple of years and basically telling what he thinks I want to hear, I realized that they are just words and that at one time these words had the power to make me stay with him. I have to keep telling myself together they mean nothing and not fall into the trap. It’s so hard but based in what I have read and the stories if people on this site, if I buy into it the cycle will continue. So I am sharing this so that I can continue to get the strength and heal. Thank you everyone.

    Email from the soc:
    Just wanted to say a few things to you as you go on with your life as I will too, For a long time time I have felt like the world was on my shoulders and I was feeling guilty about alot of things that I kept in my heart and mind. it was hard for me to let go of things that i needed to in order to move forward and live my life to the fullest, but I could not, yes it has cause me much pain and also cause the poeple who know me and love pain also. It is something that many men in my shoes have gone and go thru untill the day comes when they let go and move on to be happy and finally live. I now have done that, and in doing that, one also can see more clearly the pain and hurt one has cause not only himself but the people he loves, I am very grateful for having you in my life for as long as I did, I am very sorry for the pain I have caused you and caitie with my words and actions. More than that I am even more sorry that I did not seek the peace that I needed sooner, I know that you are a great woman and that you loved me so much and did everything you could to help me in everyway and I will never forget it. I feel that what we had was so right but yet so wrong, I came into your life with issues that I should have taken care of before falling in love with you, I should have been ready to give you what you gave me 100% and I did not. However by you being there I was able to see that there are still good loving people in this world that god puts in your path so that we learn how to love again and forgive ourselfs. I am truly sorry that its to late for us to move forward and really enjoy what we both know would have been a great life together, I just wish that we had given each other another chance and not end the way we did.
    The difference between the impossible and the possible lies in a person’s determination. I am determine to continue with the success in my personal and business life. There is a time when we must firmly choose the course we will follow, or the relentless drift of events will make the decision for usI know that winners make goals, losers make excuses! remember this always cibeli, that times of stress and difficulty are seasons of opportunity when the seeds of progress are sown. I have learned to count my blessings and not my problems, something u always told me lol.
    There is one thing which gives radiance to everything. It is the idea of something around the corner. so now I will always look for it. I have also learn that a goal without a plan is just a wish and i have wished for to long. Remember what I told you about seeing my name on my trucks, So please live your life and remember the good times and how we truly loved each other, you will always be My Cmarie

    1. @cmarie

      Wow! My ex spath wrote almost identical letter to me too. They are amazingly ‘wordy’… but behind the ‘grand’ words lies the reality, and the reality is that they are full of shit – liars, cheaters… every possible anti-virtues in action. Don’t let the words fool you. Delete the letter and just let the time pass by. You will eventually detach from the manipulative sicko.

  38. So sad, but funny too. My soc always wrote incredibly long emails (with bad spelling), and they were all about him and his problems – look at the number of ‘I’s in that email and how his abusive childhood is responsible or his actions. Wordy emails and letters are one of the giveaway signs of the narc, lots of words that mean nothing because they are cheating liars. Agree, delete the letter and go back to No Contact. Sadly I broke mine and am back on the rollercoaster to some extent.

    1. Lavache,
      Never give up. We know the drill. Everyone does things in their own time. Don’t be hard on yourself kiddo 😉

      You, Caerra, cmarie, at least you had some kind if letters. My idiot wrote nothing other than text msgs…HA! Oh yes, there was a bday card that felt like a friend zone note. He didn’t even sign his name, as if I don’t matter, like a damn robot. It always felt bizarre on some level, which helps me stay away a lot. It was never “news ” that something wasn’t quite right. Ugh!

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