Forgiveness in healing, sociopath

What is the difference between a victim and a survivor? And who will you choose to be?

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forgiveness (1)

I like to think of people who come out of sociopathic relationships as survivors not victims. It might appear that the two words are interchangeable. They are not however. There is a big difference.

Whilst everybody who was in a sociopathic relationship was once a victim, some people stay as victims. Others set themselves free and move on to be survivors. This is why I often write about being a survivor, not a victim. It has happened. I cannot change what has happened. I cannot change the situation of what has happened. But I can change me, and I can change my reaction towards it.

What is a victim?

The Oxford English Dictionary (online edition) provides the following definition of victim

noun

  • a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action:victims of domestic violenceearthquake victims
  •  a person who is tricked or duped:the victim of a hoax
  •  a person who has come to feel helpless and passive in the face of misfortune or ill-treatment:I saw myself as a victim[as modifier]:a victim mentality
  •  a living creature killed as a religious sacrifice:sacrificial victims for the ritual festivals

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/victim

I am sure that all of you will identify with this explaination. Many of you will still be living the nightmare of this definition and are still victims. Whilst many others have been through it, and moved forward towards recovery and to be a survivor.

What is a survivor?

noun

  • a person who survives, especially a person remaining alive after an event in which others have died:he was the sole survivor of the massacre
  •  the remainder of a group of people or things:a survivor from last year’s team
  •  a person who copes well with difficulties in their life:she is a born survivor 

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/survivor?q=survivor

What keeps you as a victim, and what stops you from moving to being a survivor after being a targeted victim?

You will note from the two definitions provided above that one is current the other is past tense. To be able to move forward, and to become a survivor after being a victim, you need to let things go.  You need to realise that it is not your issue. It is not your problem. Whilst the experience might have brought wisdom and also heartache – you do not have to carry this forever (unless you choose to do so).

The importance of forgiveness to move from victim to survivor

The final part of the grieving process is forgiveness. You might never forget. Nobody would expect you to. There is little point in surviving experiences in life, if you cannot remember the lessons that you learned from those experiences.

The first stage of forgiveness is to forgive YOU! You cannot forgive someone else if you cannot forgive yourself. There will always be resentment and the circle of hate will continue. If you hate yourself for what has happened, you will continue to hate your perpetrator.

This is why at the end of many posts, I write ‘love yourself’ this isn’t in terms of narcissism. It is because you need to love yourself. Because you really are worth it – Forgive YOU!! There are many reasons why you can struggle to forgive yourself.

  • Why were you so stupid?
  • Is this all you were worth?
  • Why did this happen to you?
  • Why couldn’t you see this coming?
  • How could someone treat you so badly?
  • Why did you allow the person you were helping to betray and deceive you?
  • Most importantly – why did you put someone else’s needs before yourself (and sometimes your children)

This can be difficult to overcome and to come to terms with. The sociopath, being the master of illusion and deception, further impacts this, by exploiting your weaknesses and making you feel bad about you, they convince you that everything is your fault.

Forgiveness is the key to freedom. You hating the sociopath won’t make them change. To them, it’s not personal. It’s just business. If it wasn’t you, it would be someone else. It really is no reflection on you as a person. It is just the way that they think.

The sociopath would have been that way in the past, and will be the same in the future.  You see they do not love with their heart. They do not think with their heart. They think with their head and fake loving with their heart (this is easy to do without being clouded by emotions) everything is a calculated move.

 Don’t HATE!!

Hate is a negative emotion. It keeps you bound and tied. Whilst it IS normal to hate at first and this is part of the grieving and recovery period (anger) if you are still feeling this way a year later – you are keeping yourself tied to the person. In fact you are keeping yourself in victim mentality.

You see, it really is no reflection of you. As an extreme example: If you were tired of pushing someone in a wheelchair because they had lost their legs and that this impacted on your own freedom to walk – as you were always pushing them – would you blame them and hate yourself for your situation? No you wouldn’t.

As the sociopaths brain is wired differently they cannot:

  • Empathise with your needs
  • Which means they have no comprehension or even care how you feel
  • They do not feel emotions the same – so they have no idea how you feel. It is like a foreign language. To them you are seen as weak (to us this seems cruel) but for them it isn’t, as they have no comprehension how this feels?
  • Inability to put your needs before their own. To  think in this way would be an alien concept
  • They cannot think that they are doing anything wrong either. In their mind, it is your own fault for being so stupid. It doesn’t occur to them that you are not stupid, you were deceived and manipulated – there is a difference!

The sociopath repeats behaviour not to hurt you. It is because their brain is wired differently. They cannot think of anyone else but themselves. It’s selfish. But it is not directed towards hurting you personally. It is just the way that they are. They think differently to you. It is documented that it is not a mental health condition. I think personally it is. As they are consistently restricted from what everyone else enjoys in life. They do not know what this is. Sociopaths only know how to destroy what others have.  Again, this is their problem. Not yours.

You cannot change anybody else – you can only change you!!

In the early stages there is a pain inside of your heart. A pain that cuts like a knife – for the following reasons:

  • You were betrayed  by someone that you trusted
  • That the person you loved – only faked their own love for their own needs
  • You love the illusion of the person that you fell in love with – and want that person back
  • The plans for the future – that you planned will never happen
  • You are given an illusion that all of the above plans will now happen with someone else (reinforcing the feeling that you are not good enough)

You ARE good enough. The sociopath doesn’t have the same mind as you. What has happened to you is not a reflection of your own worth. You couldn’t have made the situation any different to how it was. Nothing you would have done would have changed things.

Most importantly that fake person…. simply didn’t exist. it was a manipulation tactic for the sociopath to get what they wanted. This is painful. It is painful to recognise that not only do these people exist, that they came into your world, and you introduced them to people that were close to you.

Don’t beat yourself up

When you stop beating yourself up, stop reinforcing the sense of worthlessness that the sociopath has impacted on you and your belief in yourself….hopefully you will see the truth. Who they said you were, is in reality NO reflection on you. It was all an illusion.

In fact you don’t have to have anything to do with them. You are not their saviour. You cannot change them. Whilst they CAN modify behaviour if they so choose. They will most likely relapse.

They relapse due to:

  • Lack of long term plans and goals
  • Inability to empathise, therefore an inability to see things from anyone else’s perception than their own
  • Sociopaths display a victim mentality where they believe they are the ones who have been wronged
  • Try to see that their problems are NOT your issues! It doesn’t belong to you.

Move from victim to survivor

Realise that this is their issue. It is their problem, not yours. You now have the opportunity to rebuild your life. But you don’t really have to rebuild you. What you want is to find yourself again. To undo all of the psychological damage that has been done to you.

You need to stop hating. It won’t get you anywhere and will only keep you attached to the socio in a negative way. It shows that they have really impacted your life.

The best revenge is living well.

You CAN do this.

It IS NORMAL to hate and to feel anger as part of the healing and recovery process. Try not to stay in that hate. Do not become the shell that the sociopath made you. You are a person that is capable of empathy. Whilst you might feel angered that that this was abused by the sociopath, it is also healing to recover that part of you again. Just in a removed capacity (establish no contact) its ok to feel pity – after all you have the capacity to love and to feel. They don’t. You are free. You can be in a loving NORMAL relationship.

Their issues and their problems are not yours – so don’t make them so. Don’t make this person change who you are. Find yourself. You’re worth it!!

Find your own reality

You were a person who was whole within your own right before meeting the sociopath. You are still that whole person. it doesn’t matter what the sociopath has done or said. You are still you. Nobody can ever take that away (not without your permission) and even if they do, you can still find that person again.

You might have suffered incredible losses, but you cannot lose yourself. Or, actually you can. But inside of you will be a desire to be yourself again. Who you are is made up of the whole of you. Your own life experiences, people in your life, childhood, family friends, just who YOU are. Whilst the sociopath is expert at twisting your sense of reality and perception of the person that really you are – this can be undone …. by establishing NO CONTACT so that the sense of who you are is no longer manipulated or controlled. This will give you freedom and space to think about you and your needs.

If you continue to have contact the sociopath will continue to manipulate and control you. They do this with everybody. Life is a game.

You really are the winner. Whilst the sociopath will carry on playing this crazy game of manipulation, domination and control – you don’t have to play the game with them. Neither do you have to carry a part of them with you anymore.

Set yourself free…. love yourself…. let it go. Forgive. Never forget the lessons that you have learned. But forgive. Most importantly – FORGIVE YOURSELF… You’re worth it!!

 

power forgiveness

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109 thoughts on “What is the difference between a victim and a survivor? And who will you choose to be?”

  1. Somehow my ex started to feel some guilt … He does have some heart but very dim. I will forever love him as I feel sorry for the fact that he is ” wired ” that way. I do know he himself is a victim of poor genetics and family life. They say ” the abused become the abusers” and it is our duty to understand how much of our souls get ripped away by being involved with someone like this. I have never been such a hardened person in the past and Iam working hard to learn to trust others again and restore my faith and hope in humanity that I once had. I think it is important to recognized that sociopaths are victims that instead of fighting to heal and rewire the damage that was done to them they chose to inflict their pain on others as means of escape from the relief of their own pain. They are just now projecting it out into the world with no thought just like someone must have done to them at some point in their childhood. It is important if we are parents ourselves to realize the damage out pain causes when we throw it at innocent people and young spirits.

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    1. This is proof that words and even ignoring our children brain damage them. I truly believe this is what creates personality disorders and sociopathic tendencies in adults. It is not an excuse. At some point one must recognize their behavior and CHOOSE to heal and rewire themselves to leading a healthy life. Contrary to past studies, the brain IS plastic and capable of rewiring. The Socio has to want this change more than wanting to use and abuse others. I believe anything is possible.

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      1. This is interesting but – What I do not understand is whilst I know that this behaviour is connected to childhood often – how can this be proven with rice?

        Firstly the rice doesn’t have a brain? (does it?) – it doesn’t have a soul. It doesnt have needs or wants needed for development. So I am struggling to see the correlation between rice and people? Am i missing something here?

        I did write a post a while ago about how childhood really does affect behaviour for some people. I am just struggling to understand the rice connection? Thank you for sharing!! 🙂

    2. Your posts come at exactly the right tame. My ex is now taking antidrepresants which has helped but he still is who he is. Not his fault-he’s just wired that way.

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      1. I tried to help him one more time with his business out of kindness. Big mistake. You talked about humor-hilarious how they expose themselves without even knowing.

    4. This sounds very much like my ex. He was controlled, manipulated by his family & pastors etc. Well thats what he constantly told me. the good side of him was the larrikin, good sense of humour, inner child. but he was very childlike in wanting all the attention,angry when couldnt get his own way.

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      1. Woke up at 3:45 am with an awful sadness and still wondering if my heart will ever fully heal. It’s been 70 something days but who’s counting when you know that it’s done for good.
        Was so glad to see comments in my email to put my mind some what back at ease. I wish I could erase the memories. I’m so grateful for this site in getting me thru random rough times that still surface.

  3. I read your words and my eyes got caught in tears. Of all the process with my sociopath, this is the most difficult one, forgive myself and becoming a survivor…I’ m on my way and I hope that all of us are on our way…Thank you!

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    1. Thank you…. tears can be healing!! 🙂

      It is about forgiving yourself and loving yourself. You really deserve this.When you truly love yourself you will not tolerate anyone treating you any less than you deserve.

      Reply

    1. You are welcome. I almost pulled this post today as I read it back and it is so badly written.

      I am glad it makes sense to someone. I only put it back as someone asked where it went.

      Reply

      1. “What the bleep do we know ” recommend everyone to watch this ! Helps to understand how we perceive and how powerful forgiveness and loving yourself and others really is!

  5. I’m glad you didn’t pull this post. I’ve been reading and reading since being discarded so cruelly after a 4 1/2 year whirlwind relationship. He ultimately dragged my daughter and my family into his craziness, lies and deceptions. I fell for him hook, line and sinker as the saying goes. And, I should just add, I’m an intelligent, professional and confident woman and he is a very successful and reputable man in the community It just proves emotions are stronger than Intelligence. He conned me out of money and important family time. It’s been about 6 months and I am finally starting to accept it for what it is and what he is. Our professional paths cross but i finally treat him like just an acquaintance and only someone I once knew. Thats all. He deserves nothing more. Being snarky or rude would just be a poor reflection on me and give him fodder to talk about me to his peers. Its very difficult to take the “high road” but it is for me, not him. This and other articles are very important for the healing process. Thank you and I hope to see more thoughts on the survivors in future posts.

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    1. I so needed this post ~ thank you Pos! It’s been 15 months for me since the discard. Most days I wear my survivor hat, but I still have days where I feel like a pathetic victim. I never knew that these creatures existed and I am still shocked by it all. The thing that freaks me out the most is that by reading everyone’s stories , I have learned how alike they all are. They are like a sub species that should be identified and either put on an island where they can manipulate and destroy each other. Or, they should be registered like sex offenders so that normal human beings know who they are and can avoid them. Just saying – these people are getting away with atrocities that destroy the hearts, souls and the lives of normal human beings ~ I can testify. However, today I will put one foot in front of the other, put on my survivor hat and try my hardest to move on . And, like Happy Girl ~ Take The High Road. Which by the way is a hard thing to do. I still want to drive over to the Spaths house and tell him exactly what I think of him:), get back some of the $ he owes me and kick him – you know where :)! But, I will stay on the high road – I promise!!

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      1. Maybe we should put our ex spaths, social predators, on Dontdatehimgirl.com. I dont know if the site is still going or not. its been 7wks no contact for me. Its inspiring to read your experiences, makes me feel better on my life path.I was tempted to go to my exs town to get a chow mein pastie but dont want to risk seeing him there, dont want to lose my progress, get stuck again. I dreamt i did get to the bakery but thankfully didnt see him, so maybe i can ask a friend to take me one day.Its a small town & he went to the shops, bakery alot, so it could be risky. Prayer, positive thinking, ie the Secret does help you manifest good things, long as u think that, in your life. Love & light to all survivors & others on this site xxx

  7. loved your post!

    sociopaths are beneath us! never above us! they are losers! I pity them, feel sorry for them.

    i would have still been delusional about my ex if your blog never existed. i’m so glad you’re here to educate us about these low life psychos.

    Thankyou

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  8. What an amazing post, thank you. So glad you put it back as distraught when I couldn’t read it yesterday. This is such an important message. I am nearly a year out if a sp relationship where I was with him for 12 years, left my children for him and had a child with him too. I keep trying to move on and your post is so apt as I keep having to focus back on me rather than dwelling on what has been. Thank you, thank you for keeping us all so grounded and please keep posting.

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  10. Hi everyone & Pos 🙂

    I read this post earlier & went away to think or wait for an appropriate answer that I knew would just come to me & voila 🙂
    I was watching a TV show tonight & briefly, it was about a man having to turn off his partners life support etc…:(
    It hit me then that this is what it is finally like when you decide whether to stay connected via a machine (victim) or choose to ‘switch off’ that machine & let the person you love go.
    We have all been a support for our Soc in many ways so, ‘switching off’ & the final disconnect can be extremely hard but, you cannot leave someone sustained by machines, nor can you be held waiting for them to leave you voluntarily. They are like a machine anyhow 😦
    The Soc reminded me of someone lingering by artificial means when in fact they have no brain function & have already left your world so, you either agree to let them go & become a survivor or stay hooked to the artificiality of their life support…..
    I choose surviving by my own means & letting go with forgiveness & turn off the machine…..
    Hard but, the only way to release the hold…..walk over & flip the switch….you must in order to live freely & in your own power….go ahead & ‘swith off the machine’……….flat line, no pulse & your set free 🙂

    Love & Light 🙂
    PR xoxo

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  11. P.S….I sound like I’ve developed a lisp LOL Switch not swith off the machine….like Cindy Brady LOL 🙂

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    1. Hi Infinity,

      You start to love yourself & forgive yourself & time makes a huge difference….
      I had embarrassment/humiliation/shame but, I know that it belongs to him so, I gave him back his embarrassing behaviour/shame/humiliation….it belonged with him not me or you 🙂

      Be strong & work on your healing, the day does come when you will stop beating yourself up because, you did nothing wrong or embarrassing….it’s not your crime so, don’t do their time.
      Loving someone wholeheartedly is never a crime so, never change you….your beautiful & so is your soul 🙂

      Love PR xoxox

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    2. READ READ AND READ SOME MORE!!!

      When you realise that it isn’t you that is stupid, and that it is because they are better at being deceptive liars than you were at detecting it, you know that it isn’t you.

      You are normal. There is nothing to feel ashamed of. Being betrayed is the worst kind of feeling. It is devastating that the person you loved betrayed you and was conning you for their own selfish ends.

      Please don’t feel embarrassed. Instead feel proud

      1. Think of the wisdom you now have you didn’t have before (that others might not have)
      2. You will learn to trust yourself in the future and this is a true gift in life to have
      3. Now that you have been duped, think of the joy and appreciation that you can feel when someone isn’t doing that? That before you would have taken for granted.

      It is only just as you come out of the fog of confusion, the denial stage when you hit reality that the pain cuts like a knife – it is so humiliating. Especially if others know what has happened to you.

      But don’t be embarrassed. It might not have happened to others and they might have some judgement….. but they have no place – because you have gained wisdom that they have not…

      One day you will be grateful for this. I promise that feeling humiliated is not something that you feel all the time. As you read more, you learn more, you realise that it wasn’t you. They have what is akin to a mental health condition.

      How can you be embarrassed for their mental illness? It is not yours to carry.

      Read my post from victim to survivor. Forgiving yourself is a big stage to go through. You will, in time. If you are feeling embarassed then be proud it means that you have came out of the fog of confusion and are now moving through the 5 stages of healing and bereavement.

      Don’t be surprised if next you feel angry…. very angry… this is a step towards separating you and how you feel from their behaviour.

      Their behaviour doesn’t belong to you. It is not you. It is not your issue to carry – it belongs to them. Stay with it.. how you are feeling is a normal healthy response. One that we have all felt.

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      1. Hi Pos

        I wrote this to someone else but, thought I’d share it with you & Infinity 🙂
        I like to look at my Soc as a cancer, the bad cells killing the good cells & the treatments are aimed at lowering your immune system, eating healthy & positive thoughts & actions etc…this is what we have to do in a way to combat the Soc effect.
        Firstly our immune system goes under attack because of the shock/anxiety/grief/stress etc…
        Then we need to take care of our health & start to think more positively 🙂

        We all know that a lot more is being learnt about what causes cancer, & long term stress & anxiety are one school of thought & I believe it to be true 🙂

        Elizabeth Kubler Ross talks about this in her book ‘Death & Dying’….I have translated a lot of her wisdom into my own life & growth etc…

        Our bodies hold memory cells & I also believe the memories of others past etc…if you can
        pass on a genetic pattern, why not a memory as well?

        To me Karma is about you making your own peace with your life & the interactions/lessons learnt, that you will take on your journey or pass to another generation.

        The Soc’s are like a cancer & they can do a lot of damage & your survival is of optimum importance….so like a cancer battle, fight with all your might because, no-one deserves cancer or the destrution caused by a Sociopath.

        P.S.Maybe we should have ribbon for Soc survivors??? What Colour you ask….Rainbow of course because, somewhere over the rainbow bluebirds fly, & we’ll all fly because, the cage door is open….fly, fly, fly….dreams can come true, just believe in yourself 🙂
        Click those red shoes, there’s no place like home, home is within you 🙂

        Love & Light 🙂
        PR xoxo

      2. Do you think so? I think that the experience can bring wisdom healing and spiritual growth. Which to me is a gift .. I just don’t really see it as bad now. Although I did at the time.

      3. It is all about perception. It’s as bad as you think it is. There are sites that focus on hating the sociopath. This isn’t one of them. In fact I started this site as others were not for me. It didn’t work for me. I don’t hate anyone. Keeps me tied. Just let it go. It’s not part of me. It didn’t destroy me. Nothing can do that. I am whole within me. Only thing that DID destroy me for many years was what happened with my daughter. Even that I see as a blessing now. I am grateful I spent time with her. It’s a joy. There are no mistakes in life. I don’t believe so. If you think so. That’s victim thinking. I focus on surviving 🙂

      4. Hi Pos 🙂

        I shouldn’t write when I am tired 😦
        I didn’t mean it as a negative, quite the opposite really.
        I had that type of thought pattern when I was in the stage of grief etc….& wrote it then.
        My girlfriend had just been diagnosed terminal at the same time everything kicked off with my Soc, so, I didn’t want to compare her battle with mine but, at the same time I knew their was a correlation happening for me to be aware of.
        I saw her trying so hard to fight to stay here with us but, her journey ended back in August 😦
        She reached out to me even though she needed all her strength & she gave me perspective & appreciation of what a true battle was 😦
        I have gained wisdom/healing & awareness both through her journey & my own but, as she fought the cancer I was fighting the Soc experience.
        I put all my energy into helping her stay positive & focused on her healing, not my own.

        I was really trying to get across the damage that emotional trauma can cause as, I do believe that long term stress & anxiety can lead to breakdowns of our immune system & cause major health issues. I have seen & had this happen first hand.
        I am sorry if I came across as a victim again but, it was a stage I transitioned through but, didn’t explain myself very well?
        I am not at that stage anymore but, sometimes I probably sound like it because I reflect back on it to relate to others but, am actually clear of it & am at acceptance stage, well & truly 🙂

        I hope this makes more sense??? It’s been a long day so, goodnight 🙂

        Love & Light 🙂
        PR xoxo

  13. Amy & Positivagirl, I respectfully have to disagree with some of your thoughts on the origins of Sociopaths. My ex was brought up in a very loving, stable home, he was not abused in any manner that I have ever heard of and his family, although extremely enabling, are all, well adjusted, successful people. I believe sociopaths, like psychopaths are born, not created. Abuse, neglect, childhood trauma all of these things can certainly alter normal people and make them mentally unstable or damaged but my ex is not mentally damaged in any way, he is not “mentally ill”. He is simply a Sociopath and not wired like you or me. He doesn’t understand that you “feel” hurt when he betrays you or lies to you or steals from you. He understands he is suppose to, which drives him to mimic the sympathetic responses he knows he is suppose to show, but he really doesn’t get it because he continues the behavior with everyone….EVERYONE…..his parents, his children, his lovers, his employers, his friends. He sees everyone as a potential “victim” to use for his benefit. This is who he is; he doesn’t change, because he can’t change. He will alter what other people see when they interact with him, for awhile, but after a time everyone realizes they have been duped. Mine is so charming and likable that I am always amazed at how many people want to remain in his life no matter how badly he treats them. He has this wonderful and highly dangerous magnetism that literally draws people to him like he is a great leader. He is always fun to be around, he presents himself as caring, understanding, loving and the greatest guy in the world, until…he doesn’t get whatever it is he is after, then watch out, the mask slips and what you see beneath is very scary. He has been to prison 3 times and still convinces people that he is just this misunderstood man, who wants a second chance at a normal life, but he isn’t, he doesn’t, he is just smart enough to know this is how he opens the door. I refuse to feel bad for loving this guy, I refuse to be a victim or a survivor, there were times in our relationship that were so wonderful I will never duplicate them and I don’t regret anything but I also have to remind myself (often) that in reality, it was all an illusion, a staged performance, the lines and scenarios replayed past and many more times in the future. This is a great blog site because it does reinforce to all of us who have been affected by these people that we are not alone, that the manipulations, lies and betrayals were not because of us or something we did. These people thrive on this game, this is what keeps them alive, and they have NO guilt when they walk away. They may tell you or try to show you, after the fact, but it is always for a purpose, like getting that toe hold in your doorway again for round 2, 3, 4…..

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    1. Hi Angel GREAT comment. Whilst the behaviour of the psychopath and the sociopath are very similar. Almost identical.

      Psychopaths are born that way (so would be that way no matter what their childhood) Sociopaths are made that way. At least this is my understanding and belief.

      Great comment though – thank you!! 🙂

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      1. I read the article you referenced but I think you will find the preponderance of research opinion on Sociopaths is similar to the following from “PsychCentral.com (I did take pieces of the article out of context):

        “Antisocial personality disorder is often misunderstood by both professionals and laypeople. Confused with the popular terms, “sociopath” or “psychopath,” someone who suffers from this disorder can be discriminated against within the mental health system, because of the symptoms of their disorder. Because there is usually a pervasive lack of remorse, and many times any feelings at all, they are assumed not to have any real feelings by many professionals. This can lead to difficulties within treatment.

        Psychotherapy is nearly always the treatment of choice for this disorder; medications may be used to help stabilize mood swings or specific and acute Axis I concurrent diagnoses. There is no research that supports the use of medications for direct treatment of antisocial personality disorder, though.

        While there are many theories, as with all personality disorders, research has found little significant causative factors.”

        I’m not a Psychiatrist but to me there is very little proof that these people are victims of environment vs. born this way and the lines between Sociopath and Psychopath are extremely blurred. Also, don’t forget the few individuals who have been the subjects in therapy and research are “Sociopaths and Psychopaths” . It has been my experience that when you corner one of these individuals nothing is ever their fault and they will tell the most outrageous lies and stories to convince you of it, while laughing inside the entire time at how gullible you are. Knowing this about these people makes subjective research very hard to take seriously. Just my 2 cents…..

      1. According to that psychopaths are less ordered than socios, I thought it was the other way round, as a thought have you ever done a post on what you think are the differences with these sorts of disorders Positiva?

      2. No I haven’t done a post on that, simply as I write about dating a sociopath, not psychopath. I only put that link there to show how sociopaths are made and psychopaths are born. Out of interest did you have a normal childhood or did you experience trauma or a rough time – not what is perceived as ‘normality’ with parents?

      3. I realise the blog is mainly about socios but being that experienced psychologists struggle to differentiate between them I don’t believe everyone on here has suffered from socios (before getting lynched again I’m not saying you didn’t all suffer merely that not everyone will have diagnosed their ex correctly).

        I can’t remember any major trauma, I was quite awkward as a young child but nothing excessively far from normal as far as I can tell, while there are some mental conditions in my family they are mostly depression and not my immediate family anyway, in summary I don’t know what caused me.

      4. Do you agree with your diagnosis? Do you think that sociopathy can be ‘managed’ as in terms of behaviour management – should you wish? I think it can.

      5. Well the diagnosis seems too fit and that’s good enough for me but I’m first to admit it could be wrong. I think behaviour of any sane person can be managed whatever mental condition they have some are just harder than others and sociopathy is one of the hardest, my behaviour was changed when blending in became more important than anything else, I was basically taught to be more moral than most normal people despite not truly believing it but naturally blending in as a good guy and it’s worked thus far.

      6. Hi JK,

        Do you mean blending in to be an actual nice guy or appearing to be a nice guy whilst secretly undermining/manipulating/controlling etc…is it that hard to be genuinely nice without a pay off for you???
        Just wondering 🙂

        PR

      7. Hey phoenix, it is hard not to have a pay off but not being discovered is a pay off in itself, thankfully my social group has had worse than me in it so I have had chance to play games through pest control

      8. Pest control? What does that mean?

        Do you ALWAYS have to have a game? Like ALWAYS? Can you be around some people, but you just get each other anyway in terms of common interests/personality and resist the temptation to do wrong to them?

      9. Hi JK,

        Thanks for that quick reply 🙂
        Is it pest control or you controlling who you allow in your group or social circle?
        I guess you’d spot another Sociopath & remove them pretty quickly?
        My Soc was very good at recognizing other Soc’s I believe & just keeping followers & enablers around.
        We have a politician here that recently undermined his two counterparts by subterfuge & betrayal, it was all so obvious & I remember my Soc saying he didn’t like this guy because he was a Sociopath…he would know!
        It’s been interesting to watch this guys rise to the top & how he did it all with a smile & sided with two opponents then toppled both of them….scary t think he may actually run the country one day? I will never vote for him though!

      10. That means getting rid of more destructive people than me, I don’t always have to play but I get bored when I’m not and better to take on the cancerous people who wanted to use my friends (full story is quite long I’ve mentioned parts of it, maybe one day I’ll tell you all of it). I can stick around some people if they are interesting enough but that’s the point of games with the aforementioned guttersnipes it means I can think about that in order to remain “good” to the rest of society.

      12. My Soc would protect his followers/enablers to appear loyal & a good friend but, ultimately he would use them to cover for him etc…or help his rise to greater heights that he feels he deserves.
        His best friend (the Snr Det that called me) was absolutely in awe of him & his comment that he’s never met a better wordsmith than my Soc pretty much said it all.
        My Soc said really derogatory things about this so called bestie to me on a few occassions so, I was blown away by how much control he had over this man & I feel sorry for him.
        When I told this bestie that the Soc was engaged, he said ” I think he would have told me first, I am his best friend”….I replied, well (name)….I have an email here from his fiance, would you like me to send it to you?”….he was shocked but, didn’t want to see it?
        Years ago I nearly got away but, he had his fireman buddies call me to say how he was “lost without me, & they’d never seen him like that before over a woman”….he had so much influence with these grown men….he made them all call me!!
        He also made his daughter call me to smooth things over for him when I found out stuff but, I expect she has been primed by him for years & years, just like his son!
        My Soc wanted to appear the hero, that’s what he relies on & that’s why he chose to be a fireman…saving people & how many women melt at the thought of a fireman saving them…I did ;)….yep a fantasy & an illusion!

      13. I have as of yet not killed anyone positiva. Otherwise Dexter makes a good example of an antihero anyway (although antihero seems to be used wrong a lot these days).

        The point Phoenix is that I don’t use people in my social circle, beyond camouflage anyway, although if anyone is going to hurt them it sure as hell will be me (not something I hope it comes to for the record).

  14. So All,

    Ive started seeing someone new. Dating someone. And I do like him. Seems healthy, normal, etc.

    I sensed this may happen once I start interacting with someone on this level again, but I am having a really hard time opening up and getting close. It is still relatively new, so I don’t think there is any trouble in keeping my cards close to my chest for now. But thats just the thing. I feel it in my chest. This anxiety and fear.

    Will he ask of my past relationship?
    What am I supposed to say?
    Can I really ever expect him to understand what happened without sounding like a sappy psycho myself?
    Do I want to go through the mental gymnastics of trying to mesh a life with someone else’s?
    Do I want to put myself out there again?

    I have physically and mentally froze up over the topic and honestly can’t say I know what I want.

    I know I do want a healthy and happy relationship with someone, which could be him, but the anxiety in my chest is palpable and the implicit fear is paralyzing. I dont even have super strong feelings for him yet…I do like him. I do like spending time with him, but I honestly don’t know how I am going to make this work. I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around a healthy relationship that doesn’t have:

    – the flowery language
    – the dramatic professions of love
    – the intense passion

    It’s all taking me back to the darkest months of my year and I am having some flashbacks of bad times. It’s this sinking pit in my stomach, this fear that he will eventually learned what happened and judge me for my part in such a destructive relationship.

    I am unsure which direction to take this or how to pick it apart.

    Reply

    1. I am going to write a post about this as I had an email about it this morning and another yesterday. One wanted to – but had fear – another was in a relationship for 6 months with a nice man…. I will write it and put up a post later today

      Reply

    2. Do you really think that you are REALLY ready for a relationship right now? Even if this person is perfect for you – do you trust yourself enough now to trust someone else? Would you be able to let go fully?

      Remember that the sociopath exploited your primary emotions of love and fear to abuse you. So, being in another relationship can be tough – as you need to be able to let fear go to love. But when you have been in an abusive relationship you were controlled through fear. To fully trust you need to let fear go….

      But that fear – is also your protection. The wall that you put up to protect yourself.

      I will write a post about this (probably tomorrow now) but this is a post I wrote quite a long time ago about trust after dating a relationship. Does this help at all?

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/learning-to-trust-after-a-sociopath-relationship/

      Reply

    3. In answer to your direct questions. If he asks about history, just say that you don’t want to talk about that right now until you know each other better. If he isn’t a control freak he should be fine with this ( a socio wouldn’t as they need to know EVERYTHING) and this is ok. If you have just started dating someone you don’t have to tell them everything at once (you could scare them off).

      When you know him better you will feel more safe to disclose. I wouldn’t be with anyone who wasn’t prepared to spend the time with you to enable you to feel safe. this should be true whether you have been in an abusive relationship before or not. It is a good test to see if he is good enough for you. Work on the foundations first and then you might feel safe enough to go further. Go at your own pace and don’t be pushed. If someone wants to push faster than you are ready listen to YOU.

      The rest of the questions…. you already know those answers in yourself!! 🙂

      Reply

  15. I write this at 4am…been awake and panic stricken since 2. My birthday is today. I was sure Id be ok but Im a mess.
    My fiance has screwed with my mind since I met him 18 months ago. He broke it off by text a month ago. He never uttered a word to me. He stonewalled me for an entire week before the text whereby I thought he was depressed and I worried about him being suicidal. I have had such emotional abuse from him throughout our long distance engagement…and now I has ended cruelly, brutally and without emotion from him. I cant stop drinking huge amounts of alcohol to block the pain. I feel like I am at the end of my life.
    He was the perfect loving generous partner. Long distance with grand visions of our being together forever. I used to get sometimes several calls a day and many texts. The last call of the day would last hours. He sent gifts. He declared very publically on his facebook page of 5000 people how much he loved me and thanked God for bringing me into his life. He was perfect. We were engaged from Aug. last year. In Oct he met another girl,groomed her, lied to her about me and promised her everything he was promising me. He even tried to get her pregnant. He broke it off when It was time for me to visit him again. We are in different countries. She was scorned. She set out to harm me and she did. She accosted me physically and verbally and sent me message after phonecall etc. All the time he denied his involvement with her even publically posting that shewas a psycho. I finally got the truth from him. Weve been a mess since then ..April this year. But still planned to fight through our pain and succeed at our life together. Somuch didnt add up. I just couldnt believe the outrageous stories and the drama!!. It never ended. I financially supported him. Gave him many many many thousands of dollars. I have nothing left now. For months Ive been unemployed after redundancy. I waited in vain for financial help from him. Loads of promises but not a cent.
    I believe he is now with the girl he hated after the affair. He slandered her publically but now is slowly bringing her back into his facebook life. He has no shame. He removed all my pics and unfriended me even before his goodbye text. His last final text said “I know you feel pain…Ive felt pain.”..so condescending. He also said “Id love to be your best friend”…”take
    care”. No remorse or sadness at losing his fiance.
    Im distraught. He has moved on alright. Did I dream the whole thing?
    I wake every morning in fear…of what I dont know 😦

    Reply

    1. Hi Haveaheart. First of all, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!! 🙂 Secondly welcome to the site!!

      We all know how you are feeling right now. The sense of betrayal of devastation. We all understand how it feels to be in the ‘fog of confusion’ like you have just been run over by a train – what the hell just happened?

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/confusion-and-bewilderment-of-the-victim/

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/coping-with-pain-after-discard/

      I want you to know how you feel right now, is a normal reaction, that you CAN recover from this and you will move to happier times.

      The first thing that you need to do is ESTABLISH NO CONTACT!

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/establish-no-contact/

      This means DO NOT look at any social networking. Do not contact him. BLOCK HIM!! Block emails, phone numbers, and definitely block social networking (facebook, twitter, instagram) you will only hurt yourself and torture yourself. It will hurt more. I promise you….

      If you are struggling and find this hard to do…

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/establish-no-contact/how-to-get-your-feelings-out-without-breaking-no-contact/

      Do not expect any closure from him – so it is ok to just ‘block him’ – as he will never give you any closure. This is why

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/do-not-look-for-closure-from-the-sociopath/

      Please do not torture yourself thinking he is now with someone else and they are happy. He will do the same to her as he has done to you! You are the one who is the winner here. You can heal (and you will if you visit this site and others) if you read all that you can. You will heal and recover.

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/dont-feel-jealous-when-he-moves-onto-someone-new/

      Please know that how you are feeling right now, that shock confusion, it doesn’t last forever, where you are now the intense pain of rejection and betrayal we have all been there. I will also put the following posts that talk about the grieving process (it is like a bereavement) – also grieving the person that you thought they were….

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/the-five-stages-of-grief/

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/the-five-stages-of-grief/grieving-the-person-you-thought-they-were/

      And finally…

      https://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/from-victim-to-survivor/

      There are so many posts – but those are the most important ones.

      Sending you a HUGE hug!! Happy Birthday – I hope that some of these posts will help you. The important ones are in the drop down box at the top of the page under healing and recovery – or just click on these links. You are not alone we understand where you are now…. I promise it DOES get better!!! The more you understand the more you read…. the easier it gets. BUT FOR TODAY FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY PLEASE SET UP NO CONTACT TODAY BLOCK HIM!!!

      Reply

      1. Choice… JK has the awareness the write about their behavior then they have the awareness of choice to change it. ” I get bored” so to get the prefrontal cortex stimulation you are craving you cause harm at the expense of others. Their are medical advancements such as Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation should you choose to work with that boredom and have a clear conscience that you aren’t gaming everyone. You can choose to be genuine and loving. There is tremendous pay offs that come with being a loving and giving person 🙂

      2. I also think it’s down to choice. The behaviour can be managed if they choose to manage it. I would have thought that right now any advances in medicine would be difficult to access and expensive. Would imagine that they would trial it on criminals? (Or am I wrong?) I think (or hope) in the future there would be more advancement but for that to happen how widescale the problem needs to be recognised. But if you see Thomas sheridans work he believes govts don’t want funding for it as there are too many of them in politics.

      3. I have the awareness of choice but no inventive to make it, I have a clear conscience whatever I do, I chose to be “good” and “moral” as case of it has benefits that outway temporary power over my people.

        I don’t think politicians are protecting other socios and in general are too arrogant to believe they would be caught out by it, I just think it isn’t a massive topic required to get voted for so they couldn’t care less about it.

  17. My SP was never verbally or physically abusive toward me. She always built me up and made me feel like I had found the woman of my dreams. It wasn’t until our 8 month relationship ended when I called it off after discovering a multitude of lies that she had been telling me. Only then did she become cruel and hateful. Ignoring my calls, spreading vicious lies about me and moving on to another like I never existed. I was seeing the red flags and called her out before she had a chance to reel in her new target, yet she still managed to obtain them in a weeks time. I went no contact for over 3 months and she text me last month from a number I didn’t recognize. She apologized and wanted to tell me that she has seeked and obtained mental health treatments and wants me to know that I was amazing and she was the one that did wrong, none of it was my fault and that she basically threw what we had away. Yep, she most certainly did! Now I know what she is doing, she had found a way to make contact with texting me from a number I didn’t know and I entertained her responses just to see what she would say. She’s still lying about things I know for fact and trying to play games. Thanks to this site, I see through it all. My question is, has anyone else experienced this “it’s my fault” and I want to accept responsibility for what I did to you act? I always read that they won’t accept blaim but even in times when we were dating and I’d catch her in a lie she would eventually admit some truth within the lie, but never complete truth. She is just giving me enough truth to earn my trust but I know she what she is saying is 90% bullshit. She is a romantic sociopath. So perhaps this please forgive me I’ve gotten help for my behavior is more prone to these types?… Any comments?

    Reply

    1. Words mean nothing. Actions tell all. You should forgive but keep your boundaries clear and if you choose to be her friend I would sit back and observe her actions. Usually these types can’t hold jobs, live totally independent of others paying their way, and are very secretive with their phones, face book etc. they are rarely transparent people that allow all of who they truly are to be seen by you. I feel like we intuitively know when someone is shady and demonstrates sketchy behavior. I think it’s important to listen to our own gut as I believe with the right person there will be a sense of peace of knowing who your partner is and what they stand for.

      Reply

      1. Thanks for the reply Amy. I am completely on the same page as you, I don’t believe anything that comes out of her mouth since discovering who she really is and the truths of her past lies. She has accused her ex of very serious crimes, lied about having cancer, made up completely untrue events in her life and everyday occurrences. I don’t believe anything she says without some sort of proof. I simply wonder if anyone else on this site has experienced their Sociopathic ex taking on full blame and apologizing to the nines?! I know it’s merely to try and get in my good graces again, yet she has not displayed any reasons yet as to what her motives are. She hasn’t asked to meet up, talk or anything of that sorts. I’m sure it’s just to have me there should she need to fall back on a past source. And as far as being her friend goes, I don’t have a desire to be used and really I only find it fascinating the extremes they go to for their lies. That is the only reason I have continued to entertain her texts. Thanks again for your input. 🙂

      2. Yes I had the whole confession. Admitting to lies. Full confession. This was him just putting on another mask. He didn’t want to lose source for supply. Quickly once we went back the same thing happened again. Confession of the lies rebuilt trust. Which meant he could (and did) do the same thing all over again. I think he didn’t want me telling other people as well.

      3. I also found it fascinating too the lengths they go to with their lies. Only problem with that is that fascination you get pulled back in and blinded again.

  19. “It is documented that it is not a mental health condition.” Is that because it is a personality disorder? That is odd….especially since they have proven that their brain is wired differently…..

    I haven’t posted on here in a while. I am slowly but surely getting there….it has taken my heart a long time to catch up to my head, that’s for sure. But I am a survivor, was once a victim but no more…..THANK GOD!!!! I remember when my spath found out I notified the other woman about his true self, I told him, “Now you have to find other victims” and he got soooooo upset with that one sentence alone….

    Good luck to all of you. Time does heal but it takes time….be patient with yourself. I’m still not there 100% but I am a hell of a lot closer than I was say 6-8 months ago and this site has helped tremendously. You are doing God’s work Positiva…keep it up!!!!

    Reply

    1. I think it is because they DO know what they are doing.

      Closest thing I ever came to mental health was when I was severely traumatised, had severe PTSD. They say that isn’t mental health, its the brains normal reaction to a very abnormal event.

      Yet I would say that was a mental health condition at the time. I remember once doing mental health training in work, and was told that it was a mental health problem if it severely impacted your life, if it affected your relations with others family/friends work etc.

      Think about how they constantly screw things up. Lose people out of their life who love them. Relations with family/friends is definitely impaired. Their actions cause difficulty in their life and others. I would say that it is a mental health problem. Anything where your brain and patterns of the brain affect your life and others is a mental health problem. Or at least that is how I see it.

      Reply

    2. Yay Lenore 🙂

      Ditto on nearly there 🙂
      In fact the more time passes the more the illusion starts to disappear as if they never truly existed because they don’t really, just impressions/characterisations of us & others that the Soc uses to ‘suck us in’ but, thanks to this wonderful site of Pos’s & the way we now understand the machinations of the Soc mind/world then the clarity of truth shines through & the Soc fades out.
      I feel very sorry for the people that have children with these Soc’s as they are tied via the child so, much harder to extricate yourself from…hmm that’s why they can keep them in the loop & play forever with them 😦
      I hope others here with children can learn to put up strong shields so, that the Soc cannot torture them further….hard to break bonds with a child in the middle 😦

      Keep up the good work Lenore, you should be proud of yourself 🙂
      Love & Light 🙂
      PR xoxo

      Reply

      1. Awe, thank you PR!!! It’s weird, it almost came from out of nowhere. I feel so much better and I remember thinking at one time that I would never get here. Granted, I’m not 100% but almost….therapy has helped too.

        I just find it odd that something so evil (someone who knows they are hurting others) is not classified as mental illness. Wish they had a section of just plain “EVIL” in the DSM-V, spaths would surely be there. I specifically remember my spath telling me he had a good family, good role models, but lived the gang life because he wanted to. He knew it was wrong but didn’t care. He also would half-joke about being bi-polar. One day I asked him, “Are you?” and he was a little hesitant and just said “No” but I really think it was his way of trying to warn me that he wasn’t right. I’m sure he was classfied in prison since they go through all the mental health screenings, but then again, he may have manipulated them? But, I still think he knows what he is and like all spaths, do not care.

      2. I can’t see how it isn’t a mental illness. Its faulty wiring in the brain. Brain operates mental faculty. Therefore to me it is a mental illness. When he was at his most crazy…. it was definitely mental health without a doubt, I had severe ptsd and I felt sane next to him!! 🙂

      3. Hi Pos :)…up up & away shortly 🙂

        Just wanted to say that Soc is a mental illness & I’m reading a great book that I’ll share upon my return (haven’t finished it 😉
        So many people do not want Sociopathy known, especially the Soc’s because, that would change their ability to hide among us 😦

        Anyhow, we do know & we are sharing & growing in awareness so, you are amongst a pioneering movement to let the victims have a voice & that’s a great accomplishment 🙂
        I am teaching my children about Sociopathic traits to be aware of so, that means they may be better prepared when one come’s a calling?
        Knowledge is a powerful tool to have in our armour so, keep sharing & supporting & learning & growing.
        The cracks that they cause allows the light to shine out from us so, for all our cracks, life & awareness is sprouting 🙂
        Like a flower in a pavement crack, something beautiful is happening & growing 🙂

        Love & light 🙂
        PR xoxo Bali here I come….WHO HOOOOOO 😉 😉 xoxoxox

      4. Pr i hope you enjoy the sunshine. You so deserve it after spreading such love and light consistently to everyone here. Enjoy your well earned break. May the sun shine on you!! 🙂

      5. Thank you 🙂 & I will be thinking & shinning on you 🙂

        Just a quick funny 😉 Sometimes at my gym I have to bend over with my bottom in the air & I warn people to put their sunglasses on as light shines brightly out of my behind 😉 LOL….they always laugh & call me ‘little miss sunshine’ lol xoxox

      7. Hi Lenore 🙂

        Just a quickie as I am off to Bali today to EAT, LOVE, PRAY 😉

        Our Soc’s know they are different as mine said that he was different to most other men.
        I thought he meant that due to his job (Commander in Fire brigade) that he had seen a lot of life etc…
        I also thought his demeanour of being controlled/cool/un moved was due to years of desensitization from having seen people at their worst i.e.. fires, burns, car accidents etc…
        That he had to switch off from the enormity of what he had seen.
        I think his being a Soc has allowed him to function in a highly stressed position in positive ways as others would be very traumatised & he wasn’t. A lot of Fire men, Police, Paramedics suffer stress/ptsd & he told me he never would because, he was not like others (big clue here).
        I have since found out via his colleagues (not followers) that his climb to his position has been systematic & he has played all sides off against the other to achieve his position. This is why so many Soc’s sit in higher levels of jobs & politics, they don’t care what or who they hurt as it’s all about them.
        Our Soc’s think they are superior beings & thus taking from us is their right so, do not be offended as their grandiose sense of self is behind all their actions & intentions.
        Our Soc’s may never have realised we have a name for them but, they definitely know that they are wired differently but, because they are so self centred we are the paranoid/crackpots that they like to control.
        We know differently but, telling them is wasted as their heads are so far up their backsides that all they see are their lying tonsils wagging! LOL…

        Be good bella Lenore, I will have a drinky as a salutation to all of us here 🙂

        Love & Light 🙂
        PR xoxo

  20. Oh, that’s awesome PR!!!! I hope you get some much needed rest and fun!! Have one for me, hell have two or three for me 😉 Also, when you get back do tell the book you’re reading. Although I have come a long way, I’m still intrigued with it all. One can never be over prepared to deal with another sociopath that’s for sure!

    Reply

  21. Hi Positiva an Phoenix havent been on in a while. I couldnt get over him not being with me for our anniversary on Oct 7th and we parted ways on Nov 5th, I had my aaha moment finally. Just wanted to share.. Love an Peace 😦

    Reply

    1. Hi Bewildered, nice to see you again. How are you doing? Good to hear that you had your aha moment. Anniversary dates don’t really mean too much to sociopaths. Hope you are ok.

      Reply

      1. I know that now, how can u not be in touch with an anniversary, not to mention I checked his call history and he was speaking another girl vanessa, I lost it, we fought an parted ways, he calls an txts but I ignore him. I was raised with anniversaries and all that good life stuff, that really fuxed me up, whats left, geeze I meant nothing to him. Glad I finally seen the light. AMEN… 🙂 peace an love!!

    2. Hi B 🙂

      Just wanted to say hello & welcome back, even though it’s probably been a very difficult time for you 😦
      We are here & as you know your never alone so, I just wanted to send you love & light.
      I just returned to work after 7 days in Bali, had a fantastic time but, back to the grindstone.
      Talk soon, take care & keep strong 🙂

      PR xoxox

      Reply

      2. Hi Pos 🙂

        I had a fantastic time & came back to a truck load of work ;(
        Oh well that’s life & I will share what I gained from this journey soon 🙂
        Have a great day/night everyone 🙂

        The Soc experience makes your more aware & more appreciative of everything & then I went to a 3rd world country & it really hit home how lucky we are to have each other & be survivors 🙂
        Stay Strong & you will all have your Bali moment I am sure 🙂

        Love & Light 🙂
        PR xoxo

      3. Hi Phoenix, Happy to hear u had a wonderful time in Bali, u deserve it, your posts r always uplifting happy and pisitive. I must admitwithout this site Id be lost… Peace an love 🙂

      4. Awww B 🙂

        I would have been lost also if it wasn’t for this miraculous site & you guys here 🙂
        I had a fantastic time & you really must try & find a place for yourself to get away & breathe & change your focus.
        It’s been such a journey this year & I have learnt so much 🙂
        One things for sure, there is no going back. I was meant to live through this nightmare to learn & grow & I took my lesson seriously.
        I am amazed at myself really & how stuck I had become with my Soc & now I see clearly that I didn’t hold tight to my self.
        The Soc’s among us are truly the leeches of society, bleeding us dry of ourselves so, my dear B it is up to you to change & work hard at discovering just where you want this road to take you? It really is in your hands & you have your own power & truth within you.
        Go out & knock the socks off the world, it’s all possible & it’s all worthwhile.
        Step outside your comfort zone & see a brand new world.
        You have nothing to fear but, fear itself & after this experience you can conquer anything 🙂
        If I can do it, so can you I promise, it’s all doable & it’s all okay 🙂

        Love & light 🙂
        PR xoxo

      6. Hi NMIBSIH,

        I had a wonderful time in Bali & was sorry to leave 😦
        Still I am fortunate to have gone in the first place 🙂
        It proved to me that life goes on & that I am still able to move forward etc…seeing the Balinese people & their culture was amazing & the things we take for granted are so precious to them 🙂
        I also realised that we are all 3 dimensional beings & we see with more than our eyes, hear with more than our ears & feel with more than our hands. That’s what makes us all so very wonderful 🙂
        Unlike our Soc’s who are 1 dimensional & unable to even begin to fathom our depths of understanding & compassion. They are drawn to us for all our strength & it is only our humanness that allows them to gain a hold on us.
        Watching people with so little work so hard for food, made me realise what a complete waste of time these Sociopaths are & more important, deserving people & places are worthy of our time & effort.

        I hope you are well & keeping strong & remember that nothing stays the same forever, you will succeed against your Soc & you will always be the better person 🙂

        Love & Light 🙂
        PR xoxo

      7. That’s so wonderful to hear, I so needed your words of inspiration this morning, (it’s am for me okay, lol) I know your right!! I think sometimes, I get frustrated, because I am surrounded by NS, except my dad. I am trying to move out of this circle.

  22. Hey Phoenix!! Your so right we put to much of ourselves into things that dont matter instead of things well deserved, Couldnt agree more, at least we are wiser for it so thats a positive.. Love an peace 🙂

    Reply

  24. hello. i am close to your blog since one year, after i diagnosed theman i was with for 6 years to be psycopath. he admitted it and accepted it fully. we are both in medical science high ranked. i am in limited contact since then as i cant go yet to full NC due to a work project that it will finish in one year from now. It has been a very dificult time for me and i have passed all the stages of grief. he stil tries to hoover but i maintained my dignity and did not go back despite the cognitive dissonance that these predators create. my story is similar to the most here and the good thing is i do not feel the need anymore to share the details. the only think i can say is that i went through the ultimate betrayal as he and my best friend for 20 years whom i literally support as anybody else had created an affair and were deceiving me in the most disgusting way. they were playing with my brain and my heart like i was a puppet. after my intuition led me to put the pieces together, i realised what he always have been, i left him and i stydied as much as i could about psycopathy, the classical textbooks and various blogs, among them yours. you have all helped me here very much and i thank you from the bottom of my heart. what i want to say is that i am in the acceptance stage now. He is a psycopath non violent with a vey high IQ, without an abusive childhood and well socilaly adepted with a steady succesful career, a covert one, the most dangerous type of all. i feel no hate, no anger any more, only indifference alterated with disgust. for both of them. what i want to comment for this post is that in my opinion i find some oversimplifications which could be harmful for me in the early stages. Psycopaths and sociopaths according to the literature( Hare, s
    tout e.t.c) dont suffer from mental health disorder,hey dont suffer at all actually as they think they are the best. they just create victims. ASPD is classied as a personality disorder not as a mental, brain disorder. they have full responsibility of what they do as they know very well wright from wrong. they just dont care as long as they can get away with their lies and manipulations. they are not some poor liittle abused children who are hurt and just cannot help their situation. they are predators and only if we see them for what they are we will be able to free ourselves from them.if i got it wrong, i apologise.I just dont want these dangerous people to have any other emotion given to them by the normal humans. Thhey dont deserve no pity no sympathy, nothing. enough they took and continue to take from humanity. indiference is the ony thing that they deserve. They know very well to adjust their behavior when they want to succed a goal, so it means that they are in control of themselves. Its just take them more energy to do the wright thing, so they prefere the easy way, lies, manipulations, destruction of human beings. i apologise for possible errors in grammar or syntax, english is not my mother language.

    Reply

    1. Hi clarity, thank you for your message. Would you not agree that any personality disorder is a mental health condition? It is as its in the brain. They seem to function ok for a while. Until they are about to lose control, and then the brain goes haywire. At least this is what I have observed. Also cycling patterns of behaviour this too is mental health and in the brain. While they can effectively appear the most normal and sane of all of us, I strongly believe it’s a mental health condition. I have also read that ptsd wasn’t mental health as it was simply a normal reaction to an abnormal event. However I have had severe ptsd and it did cause adverse mental health (for the first time in my life). I would say those years it was mental health. Absolutely. What they do is not normal, it is therefore to me mental health related. It’s not physical health but mental.

      Reply

  25. hi positiva, this is my view about the definition of ptsd and psycopathy. PTSD according to the DSM5 is no longer classified as an anxiety disorder of mental health due to a stressful event but as a reaction of the whole body and brain to a severe trauma due to severe stress. this classification destigmatises the people who suffer or suffered from PTSD as they are not seen any more as some weak persons who react abnormally with great anxiety to stressful events due to mental distabilization. They are now viewed as people with prior normal mental health that due to a very traumatic event, their brain became temporarily destabilized as a reaction to extreme stress. i agree with you that of course the person who suffers may for some time, weeks or months exhibit behavior and feel emotions much more different that his or her normal self. but this is due to the great traumatic shock, it is a reaction, a coping mechanism, maybe dysfunctional which it will last variable time for each person which has to do with factors as the nature and severity of the traumatic enent, the supporting system that exists, the therapy given,if given e.t.c. it is not a permanent situation and thank god the majority of traumatised people recover from this after variable time. your trauma was the worst probably among all, to loose a child, and the enormous trauma altered your mental stability of course for some time, whco wouldnt? But you dont have a permanent disorder. this is how i view this based in my medical training and my experience. i wish you the best inthe recovery procces of such a major loss. you are very helpful to all of us and i thank you for this. About psychopathy, we know that it is not a diagnosis in DSM, ASPD is. Hare, characterises it as disorder of the psych, as those people are completely void of empathy. maybe the roots of empathy are found on brain circuits that in these people malfunction. But this doeasnt mean that they are absolved of their responsibility to alter their behavior in a less destructing manner for society. they are noat psychotic who on a fit of psycotic episode act crazy becouse dopamine is destabilised and they have no insight in their behavior acting uncontrolably. psycopaths are very aware of what they do, always, even if they act under an inpulse, they know what they do as they have full insight in their deeds. they just dont care becouse as they feel impune and invisible due to their grandiosity, they think that they can dupe all the other s and get away with their acts. this is not a mental insanity, it is a moral insanity. Thats why the legal system once someone is diagnosed a psycopath receives no less but bigger punisment. they dont absolve them becouse their brain mulfunctions as they do with a schizofrenic or maniacodepressive, instead, as it is known that they never fell remorse, they keep them locked permanently in prison or quarded psychiatric institutions. a psycopath always know what is wrong and what is wright. he always have the potential to make the wright choise. He doesnt want to put the effort as it is easier to manipulate and dupe. he doesnt seek therapy as he feels the best. this does not look to me as a mental health issue of a person who suffer in his life. so they deserves nothing but indiference and contemt for the harm that they create.

    Reply

    1. Yes I can agree with you on the moral insanity. In the UK this is what it was called In the Victorian era ‘moral insanity’. I think they are opportunistic and impulsive. When acting on impulse they are fired by this impulse (rage too often). During this time I have absolutely witnessed insanity. I also agree that it is easier to manipulate and dupe. I think that many (sociopaths not psychopaths) this is learned behaviour in childhood. Many victims have agreed about the colour draining from the face the blackened eyes. I believe that during this time, they do lose control and this is mental health and indeed mental insanity. It might not be permenant. But during the raging time they can lose control. My ptsd was quite severe as I was trapped in a situation with a dead child inside of me full term. I couldn’t escape and had a long term phobia of vaginal examinations caused by my last birth. It went on for almost a week. I did think I would die too. 3 days after with her dead she went to the fridge at night. They encourage you to ‘bond’ which to me, is a crazy thing to encourage. I lost 3 years of my life. I didn’t have empathy during that time it was all about me. I knew this difference as my work had always been with homeless people where empathy was important for my role. I remember being so upset. I understand about it being something that isn’t forever, but for some people it is so severe it is years long or at least it was for me. I had no comprehension of the outside world for more than 3 years. Another thing (that I know is mental health) it affected friends family socially work and I had no control to change it. I never thought I would come back tbh. Sociopaths I think the biggest thing is about losing control. They need control over others. To an extent that I have never witmessed before. They really do believe that their partner is their possession. Something that they own. Like someone owns a dog. That’s about the extent of the emotional connection I think. Everything else is faked. During 2013 I gave a lot of thought to this. When I returned to work, I had to fake I was still the same to keep my job and stay working. But the truth was that my ability to empathise was gone (this could have been though as other peoples problems felt minor compared to my own experiences _possibly…. But I think even if I had been through more than someone I had the ability to empathise. Nothing took that away but for years of my life this was absent. I think this experience has given my an insight (albeit temporarily) into the working patterns of the brain. It’s a fascinating topic. Also one (ptsd) that is not too well understood. I also think that there is more to understand about sociopathy especially the why. I think that because they a’re so deceptive and manipulative that we are told ‘no change ever’ I think that’s too simplistic. I admire Robert hares work, but his research is primarily focused on people who are in jail and criminals. Many function well in society. Many keep to a code of conduct to ‘try’ to keep them out of trouble. Which of course is not really always successful

      Reply

      1. Hi Pos,

        It’s funny you mention the ‘ownership’ re like having a dog.
        I think that for me anyway, I own my dog & treat him like a family member & take care of him & tend to his needs.
        Basically I love him & take my responsibility to treat him well very seriously.
        To me the Sociopath etc…subjugates people & whilst you are obedient they will ‘keep you’ but, always bring you to heel & only give you enough chain to run but, like to keep you shackled to them.

        I am so glad, I now ‘right from wrong’ & don’t ever exploit my power over animals or children or anyone I could choose to dominate.
        That’s the difference between us & them, we choose not to harm & they choose themselves first & foremost.
        Selfishness is not an attractive trait even in a child.
        I agree that more should be done to understand & deter even Sociopaths for only pursuing their own agenda at the expense of others.
        If the intention & action lead to a negative outcome then, don’t do it.
        Everyone takes responsibility for their actions unless, they are mentally disabled or impaired & even that is subject to opinion.

        Responsibility is the key, own your behavior & accept that responsibility.
        Don’t perpetuate through time & generations a lack of self-awareness.
        Your impact on those you share the planet with is important & ultimately a Sociopaths time would be better spent doing more good than harm.

        I am sure there is something they could do to benefit mankind & humanity but, can’t think of anything???
        Any ideas….sewage control??? hahaha….

        Love & Light 🙂
        PR xoxo

  26. and something more to add. being myself in neuroscience and medicine i know that brain has plasticity,great plasticity. even if these people, psycopaths have malfunction in the circuit amygdala -frontal lobe which regulates emotions and empathy, as long as they have the capacity to know intellectually the wright from wrong, they have the capacity to choose the wright repeatedly and this could probably make diference in neuronal synapses leading to a less harmful attitude in long term. they have cognitive empathy. maybe it is more difficult to them than the normals to act in a productive way for society, but everything in life is a matter of choise and will. they repeatedly choose to destroy, i have seen it in my own story and it still overwhelms me.

    Reply

  27. it is absolutely terrible what they did to you when they they forced you to bond with your diseased child during so long. i cannot see what is the purpose of this, as you didnot have any lived experiences with her. it is tragic that you suffered this, i think they perpetuated your trauma in this way. i wonder who was the brilliant psycologist who had the idea… also in my country they never let a dead child inside the mother, they take it with caesarean section. i find it more reasonable than to carry a your dead child being aware of this. it is chilly. they should be condemned al for mal paractice and negkigence of the emotional and psychic stability of the mother. i find all this cruel, brutal and illogic.
    concerning psycopaths, i agree that Hare made his work with criminals. But what determinates psycopathy is no the extend of their deeds but the absolute lack of empathy, conscience gilt and remorse for other people. so how i sse this is that they are all the same inside, they all have the potential to go to the extremes. what differentiates them is the degree of how much cocially adepted they are, of what degree they can chose to go by the rules so no to end up jail. in my case i had covert one, well adepted and succesful, not in jail, but he had created absolute destruction to everybody around without a blink. the lies were enormous, the fakeness beyond comprehension…. and he is completely salf aware. even now thst he knows that i know, even after the disgusting things they did, he tries to regain control in me and my feelings. he does not admit that he lost, becouse he thinks he is the best after all… the scam.noumerous times with pseudoapologies trying ti manipulate me and suck me back, the loser. he does not realise that the more he does, the more i despise him, absolutely terribble… he carries his disorder with great pride, saying thst he has super powers… but the fact remins that i kicked him in the curb finally, and i see that this is very bitter for hi to swallow.

    Reply

    1. Hi Clarity 😃

      Welcome 😃😃
      My Socialised Sociopath/covert Narcissist is like yours & parades around like a peacock!
      They are extremely adept when they have managed to get to the higher echelons of society & I have seen firsthand what his perceived power can do. The enablers & followers & proxy people are utilised like a mini army & no matter what you do, you will never penetrate the line of defence he has engineered.
      My advice to you is, play the game, play it cool, don’t show your hand.
      Your power is within, use that to drive you on. He will not understand you if you don’t react, if you are unable to go No Contact, then shore your own army up. Make sure you have others with you & don’t engage in conversation other than what is necessary. Do not divulge what you do or think etc…they watch likd hawks so, put on a good show if self awareness.
      If he desires control, play like he does & let him think he has it but, know yourself, he has nothing but a perception & the reality is far different.
      Hold your power, make choices with great thought. Stop & listen to yourself.

      You will be okay so, just stay here & vent etc…we get it & understand exactly where you are coming from.

      Oh & don’t worry about your English as, I am Australian & write like I can’t spell or punctuate !!!! I write upside down! Lol 😉
      I do however understand Sociospeak/language, it has it’s own readers un-digest 😉

      Love & light 🙂
      PR xoxo

      Reply

      1. PR thank you for your response.except that iam not a native english speaker, some posts are written through my smart phone , that’s why the typos, i hope that you get the meaning at least. Unfortunately i cannot go full NC yet due to a very important for me scientific work project, so i play it low and i gray rock him as much as i can , until i have my work done. thank God i have a great supporting system which keeps me sane when intrusive thougts or bad feelings are triggered when a neccessary contact with the psycopath has taken place. I know that the situation will be much better with full NC. It is mind blogging how these people , especially the covert , high fynctioning psycopaths can lie , deceive and manipulate in such exrend and for so long. In my case it is like i was in the matrix, and i managed to get out. When i have more time i can say more of my experience just to show to new members here the mondus operandi of a self aware , very intelligent psycopath. I am still on my feet thanks to my medical and scientific knowledge which made possible for me to act detached from my feelings ,so to be able to diagnose him. I can assure you it was hell all this. I feel very lucky that this terrible double betrayl did not kill me spiritually and emotionally as i sure got very close to this. Littl by little i am trying to rebuild my faith in mankind and i feel stronger. love to all of you.

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